Almost done my entire Bubba Mosin! Purists need not open this thread!!! (pic heavy)
- Thread starter MuthaFunk
- Start date
I shoot Mosin PUs in their original configuration but this is a hobby so I respect others who want to experiment. Plus plus for posting real targets instead of the internet "..shoots 1 MOA all day long".
It is going to be hard to judge how effective your improvements are using military surplus ammunition. I shot these targets 100 yd this morning (light wind and not very good visibility due to blowing snow). The hand loads are 43 gn of H4895 and 174gn Sierra HPBT. The Milsurp is Bulgarian light ball 1972. You can see that an accurate rifle can't do much with Milsurp ammunition. If you don't reload, try to find a box of Hornady Steel Case Match ammunition - expensive but will shoot very well.
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It is going to be hard to judge how effective your improvements are using military surplus ammunition. I shot these targets 100 yd this morning (light wind and not very good visibility due to blowing snow). The hand loads are 43 gn of H4895 and 174gn Sierra HPBT. The Milsurp is Bulgarian light ball 1972. You can see that an accurate rifle can't do much with Milsurp ammunition. If you don't reload, try to find a box of Hornady Steel Case Match ammunition - expensive but will shoot very well.
I shoot Mosin PUs in their original configuration but this is a hobby so I respect others who want to experiment. Plus plus for posting real targets instead of the internet "..shoots 1 MOA all day long".
It is going to be hard to judge how effective your improvements are using military surplus ammunition. I shot these targets 100 yd this morning (light wind and not very good visibility due to blowing snow). The hand loads are 43 gn of H4895 and 174gn Sierra HPBT. The Milsurp is Bulgarian light ball 1972. You can see that an accurate rifle can't do much with Milsurp ammunition. If you don't reload, try to find a box of Hornady Steel Case Match ammunition - expensive but will shoot very well.
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Excellent info! Thanks.
In just waiting for my dies to come in from Budget Shooter Supply and I'll get on making some hand loads. I have a recipe that worked well in this rifle from the previous owner but he cast his own bullets. I'd like to slug this one to find out if I could get away with standard .308 bullets since this is by far the tightest Mosin bore out of all that I've checked. I only put a bullet into the muzzle and noted how far it went in.
Where's the best place to buy decent SP bullets?
Experience says you won't get much accuracy improvement with 0.308 over Milsurp. I have tried a few with mixed results; the best are 195 gn. HPBT (Hornady) but these are an odd ball and therefore expensive.
By far the best are 174 HPBT Sierras but these are running $56 +tax per hundred. Lapua D166 200gn FMJ bullets also work well. Some people have had good results with Hornady 174 FMJ bullets (0.303). I have found these no more accurate than surplus and they leave an incredible amount of copper in the bore. They are cheap ($37+tax) so they are worth a try but don't buy too many all at once.
I don't know if there is such a thing as an accurate SP. If you are hunting you don't need < 1.5 MOA anyway.
Interesting! Have you checked your particular Mosins bore size by chance? I know they can be very different from each other.
I have the mold #'s from the previous owners casting experiments. They're .308 molds so I thought I may get away with it... It'll be worth a try I suppose.
Dorian Gray
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Beer cans, paper clips springs, what? No Duct tape? If we didn't already have a Macguyver around here, i'd suggest PMing the green one and asking to change your user name. If anyone around here deserves it, it's you OP. 
In all seriousness, looks good.
In all seriousness, looks good. 
Yes I have. All over the internet you will see posts about "slugging the bore" for Mosins but very few if any reference to "slugging the bore" on any other rifle. This idea belongs with "SKS slam fires" and MN head space checking. SKS slam fires are a marketing opportunity as are the coin type head space gauges (this might get some excited posts
).The groove diameter of a rifle barrels evolves much more slowly over its service life than the land diameter. The lands are the area where the frictional forces are concentrated and where the effects of improper cleaning are most severe; land diameter increases with wear. The best single attribute measurement of the condition of a rifle is the land diameter. The best condition rifles are 7.62 mm at both the chamber and muzzle; these are exceptionally rare. The majority of Mosins measure greater than 7.66 mm which is indicative of considerable wear and decreased engagement depth on the bullet ogive.
Mosin rifles have four lands so it is not easy to make a variable diameter measurement (bore micrometers have 3 feet at 120 degrees). Plug gauges in 0.01 mm increments are the best way to measure the land diameter. The rifle I used to shoot the target above has a 7.65 mm bore (moderate wear).
Slugging provides a single point measurement of the barrel dimensions somewhere between the chamber and muzzle. The lead slug must pass through, and will record, the smallest diameter encountered. The slug does not tell you whether this dimension exists for the entire length of the barrel or over a very short segment. We assume it represents the whole barrel but we know that wear is concentrated at the throat and muzzle. Mosins generally slug 0.311 to 0.314. Finnish barrels slug somewhat smaller on average (~0.310).
It is important to recognize that military rifles and ammunition are engineered systems. A commercial rifle must be designed to use a very wide range of bullet types; this is not so for a military rifle. In the picture below you can see a military FMJ bullet (0.310) has largely sealed against the groove diameter (~0.312) which would not occur in free state but which does occur when the bullet is longitudinally compressed as it accelerates during firing. Finnish D166 bullets, by virtue of their geometry, expand less in the bore and consequently Finnish barrels have slightly smaller groove diameters. Mosin rifles have larger groove diameters because that is what the design intends, not because the Russians were drunk, sloppy or careless.
autocrash
CGN Regular
the spring of a hair clip can also be used.
Piano wire can be had from most RC/Hobby stores for ~$2 - no bejeweled hair clips required
(Seriously, that paperclip wire was overstressed when used for a paperclip...)
There really isn't much travel going on there. You could be right but after trying it out, it seems to work well with little stress on the spring. I guess time will tell. This rifle typically sees a minimum of 200 rounds every time I get to the range so it'll get a workout.
Beer cans, paper clips springs, what? No Duct tape? If we didn't already have a Macguyver around here, i'd suggest PMing the green one and asking to change your user name. If anyone around here deserves it, it's you OP.
Lol!! My handle is the same user name I have on a number of other forums. The first of which was a bass player website. The name was given to me by an old band member at the time. I've just kept it so I never have to remember my user name when I get on a forum.
For me, Milsurp rifles have a certain field fit charm about them. The whole Mosin accurizing thing by shim the stock with wood chips and create a single pressure point with a piece of cloth dampened with oil. It's brilliant! Beer cans and paper clips are homage to this creative thinking of our Finnish and Russian friends of yesteryear.
Yes I have. All over the internet you will see posts about "slugging the bore" for Mosins but very few if any reference to "slugging the bore" on any other rifle. This idea belongs with "SKS slam fires" and MN head space checking. SKS slam fires are a marketing opportunity as are the coin type head space gauges (this might get some excited posts
The groove diameter of a rifle ...and consequently Finnish barrels have slightly smaller groove diameters. Mosin rifles have larger groove diameters because that is what the design intends, not because the Russians were drunk, sloppy or careless.
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Great post! Thanks for taking the time. The rabbit hole runs deep indeed on this topic. Much more learning is required. Unfortunately as educational as the Internet is, there's also the marketeers at work there.
I had thought about slugging the chamber end of the rifle and backing the slug out and then doing the muzzle end and finally the whole thing to try to see any variances. I see it's not ideal but other than trial and error and a whole lot of extra bullets not getting used there doesn't seem to be a good way of knowing your approximate bore size.
I'm just trying to save buying a bunch of bags of 100 bullets that I can't use.
I just wanted to update this thread with some recent targets that I shot today. I figured I was being limited by the milsurp ammo so I got into reloading. I've been working up a couple of different loads for this rifle and getting lots of practice shooting. Today I went back to shooting some of this particular rifles favorite milsurp ammo (60's Chinese Manufactured) and I couldn't believe the results!
That top right target on the 200yd is actually five shots!
Now I'm sad to say that I haven't had much luck making decent hand loads. It seems to be a skill all on its own and I am struggling with it. I've seen some decent groups from my hand loads but they're just not as consistient as this milsurp.
With my hand loading troubles aside, I've been very happy with this project. It's a pleasure to shoot and often prints better targets than the guys next to me at my range with much more expensive rifles, glass, and ammo!
That top right target on the 200yd is actually five shots!
Now I'm sad to say that I haven't had much luck making decent hand loads. It seems to be a skill all on its own and I am struggling with it. I've seen some decent groups from my hand loads but they're just not as consistient as this milsurp.
With my hand loading troubles aside, I've been very happy with this project. It's a pleasure to shoot and often prints better targets than the guys next to me at my range with much more expensive rifles, glass, and ammo!
OP, not only is that rifle a looker, it's a darned good shooter too!!!
The fun part about reloading is trying new combinations to find out what works BEST in YOUR rifle. As I'm sure you already know, each one is different, and each one likes different ammo.
It appears to really like that 60's Chinese surplus, which is somewhat surprising to me given the known inconsistencies of surplus ammo. Those fliers you're getting I'd be willing to bet are caused by the ammo, not the shooter or the rifle.
Great write up and great job with your Mosin!!!!
The fun part about reloading is trying new combinations to find out what works BEST in YOUR rifle. As I'm sure you already know, each one is different, and each one likes different ammo.
It appears to really like that 60's Chinese surplus, which is somewhat surprising to me given the known inconsistencies of surplus ammo. Those fliers you're getting I'd be willing to bet are caused by the ammo, not the shooter or the rifle.
Great write up and great job with your Mosin!!!!
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Those are some real nice 100yrd groups with surplus ammo, once you figure out a good load your laughing with handloads.
