Apparently model12's& auto5's values of diminished

98ssuck said:
The values of the fixed full choke 2/34" 12 gauge guns have gone down. They are hunting shotguns that cannot really be used for waterfowl out of the box. They also lack a vent rib.
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So spend $35.00 and get the choke reamed out.
Many older guns had vent ribs plus a vent rib is what you get used to, you don't need it.
And as far as the comeback that "old barrels aren't steel shot compatible", who cares. If the gun is sitting in the corner useless anyhow, open up the choke and shoot it until the barrel is rendered useless from steel shot. I bet you will find in the majority of cases you will be shooting a lot longer than you thought. For people that want to do that there are a lot of guns that can be had for cheap.
 
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As far as a user 12 gauge is concerned I have always felt Model 12 prices were high 35 years ago and the lower prices they sell at today are more realistic.
 
...rather nice to be able to purchase some of the finest pump and auto shotguns for a reasonable price again. A lot of the past hunting generation have retired and or passed on to the hunting ground in the sky. Todays generation seem to be more impressed with black plastic, cammo and number of rounds that can be fired per second...than quality workmanship. Old technology is old technology simple as that...but one has to wonder what gives when the front bead falls off a brand new $2000 Italian shotgun.
 
I have 2 model 12's, got one in terrible shape for $150 (someone painted it on the outside and inside the receiver) but I had some fun cleaning up the old girl and shot a 41/50 on the clays course last time out with a full choke...think it was the second or third highest score of the day. The other is literally in the mail now, was $250 on Ellewood Epps in "good" shape but was priced down presumably because it has a polychoke (which I love!).
 
Similar to the A5, I bought my first shotgun when I was 15 - had it secured by then anyway - around 1987. My Dad's best friend was a gun collector, sold it to me
for what he said he paid for it when he had purchased it new. It had only 6 shots out of it when I got it, was a beautiful gun. It's a savage 775a, which was produced
by savage on a Browning patent, or so I was told. It has the adjustable choke, 2 & 3/4 only but cycles like a dream. Am going to appreciate it when I get a bit older,
as it is much softer on the shoulder than my 870, but I wish I had instead also bought a cheap single shot to bushwack with at that tender age - it saw a decent amount
of use in my earliest hunting days. Not terrible condition, but not the beauty it was when I left his house with it.
Finally last year, I saw one at the Orangeville gun show. It looked like it had been dragged behind a bus for about 20 miles, and had a sticker for $450 on it. I kind of
chuckled, as I had never seen another like it and knew very little about it.

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That's a nice one, I'm trying to find the same type of A-5, one with a poly choke would be best.

TedNugent said:
Similar to the A5, I bought my first shotgun when I was 15 - had it secured by then anyway - around 1987. My Dad's best friend was a gun collector, sold it to me
for what he said he paid for it when he had purchased it new. It had only 6 shots out of it when I got it, was a beautiful gun. It's a savage 775a, which was produced
by savage on a Browning patent, or so I was told. It has the adjustable choke, 2 & 3/4 only but cycles like a dream. Am going to appreciate it when I get a bit older,
as it is much softer on the shoulder than my 870, but I wish I had instead also bought a cheap single shot to bushwack with at that tender age - it saw a decent amount
of use in my earliest hunting days. Not terrible condition, but not the beauty it was when I left his house with it.
Finally last year, I saw one at the Orangeville gun show. It looked like it had been dragged behind a bus for about 20 miles, and had a sticker for $450 on it. I kind of
chuckled, as I had never seen another like it and knew very little about it.

20151210_000124.jpg


20151209_234923.jpg
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guntech said:
As far as a user 12 gauge is concerned I have always felt Model 12 prices were high 35 years ago and the lower prices they sell at today are more realistic.
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The market dictates value, but as a mech eng, I can tell you, there is no way the Model 12 could be produced today and sell for anything close to the prices for nice used ones. They are all machined steel with hand fitted walnut. Even with a room full of CNC, I doubt you could make and sell them in the west for under $1500 a pop.
 
Claven2 said:
The market dictates value, but as a mech eng, I can tell you, there is no way the Model 12 could be produced today and sell for anything close to the prices for nice used ones. They are all machined steel with hand fitted walnut. Even with a room full of CNC, I doubt you could make and sell them in the west for under $1500 a pop.
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Agree. Ithaca proved that with the model 37
Cheers
 
98ssuck said:
The values of the fixed full choke 2/34" 12 gauge guns have gone down. They are hunting shotguns that cannot really be used for waterfowl out of the box. They also lack a vent rib.
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I have never seen a Model12 with a vent rib..not that I have payed much attention too or gave it much thought.
I have seen many A-5'ss with, with-out a vented rib and one or two with a solid raised rind.
Doesn't mean they didn't make them with those options.
Someone wants to sell me a nice A-5, but at a grand a few weeks before .....
Pictures, we need pictures!
Rob
 
The plain field grade Model 12, from the late 50's early 60's, full choke plain barrel, aftermarket pad has settled in around $350 to $450. .

Pre-war & early post war Model 12's, solid rib, 2 -pin vented rib, donut post rib, deluxe wood, skeet & trap guns, pigeon grades, gauge, chokes other than full: these guns hold a good value and sell for considerably higher prices if the gun is . . "original and correct" . . The problem is the factory records were lost in a fire at Winchester New Haven and this has opened the door for built up imposter guns by slimy sellers. . Buyers have been swindled into buying a gun they thought was an original collector grade to find out later the rib is aftermarket, the wood was changed out and the gun began life as a plain field grade. . Nice looking shooters but not worth the high price they paid. . The high one on the be careful list is the 28 gauge Model 12 of any configuration and not to forget the Model 42 in the high grades. . Some 28 gauge and high grade 42's will go for $10,000 to $15,000. . Originality - Rarity - Condition

The important thing is know what to look for and know what you're buying. .
 
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You really hit it on the nose about expensive shotguns being a risky endeavor. I tend to avoid high grade firearms. I rather like the saying "I like my guns as I like my women...cheap and plentiful", although with alimony payments being what they are these days that old saying might be as expensive in practice as the model 12 would be now to produce. :)

Rod said:
The plain field grade Model 12, from the late 50's early 60's, full choke plain barrel, aftermarket pad has settled in around $350 to $450. .

Pre-war & early post war Model 12's, solid rib, 2 -pin vented rib, donut post rib, deluxe wood, skeet & trap guns, pigeon grades, gauge, chokes other than full: these guns hold a good value and sell for considerably higher prices if the gun is . . "original and correct" . . The problem is the factory records were lost in a fire at Winchester New Haven and this has opened the door for built up imposter guns by slimy sellers. . Buyers have been swindled into buying a gun they thought was an original collector grade to find out later the rib is aftermarket, the wood was changed out and the gun began life as a plain field grade. . Nice looking shooters but not worth the high price they paid. . The high one on the be careful list is the 28 gauge Model 12 of any configuration and not to forget the Model 42 in the high grades. . Some 28 gauge and high grade 42's will go for $10,000 to $15,000. . Originality - Rarity - Condition

The important thing is know what to look for and know what you're buying. .
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As a fellow mech I formally concur with your evaluation! Chinese labor can do the job for a competitive cost but by no means does the quality of workmanship stand up to scrutiny. I've never shot a Chinese firearm without first taking it apart and examining the details, my "favorite" glitch to date was when I spotted that the gas drill hoe in a type 97 went through the barrel and into the other side damaging the lands etc. Cost of a depth stop for your drill bit $0.50, cost of screwing up 1000 rifles...priceless (since there wasn't a recall there was no price).

Claven2 said:
The market dictates value, but as a mech eng, I can tell you, there is no way the Model 12 could be produced today and sell for anything close to the prices for nice used ones. They are all machined steel with hand fitted walnut. Even with a room full of CNC, I doubt you could make and sell them in the west for under $1500 a pop.
Click to expand...
 
i have recently purchased a 1960 browning auto 5 12 guage mag with a 28 in vent rib, love the gun and i am from the " young age" you can not beat the craftsmanship and quailty of these guns, id like to see how the guns of today will work in 55 years?
 
Once upon a time Auto 5's were listed lower in Canada than the US --- Now I see them on the EE for much more than US prices and Blue Book values. Must all our Canadian gold we add on. CGN is the only forum were buddy goes pot and buys a Ruger 10/22 for $330.00 -- shoots it and asks $400 on the EE.
 
Today's hunters do not want 2 3/4" guns with fixed chokes. The Model 12's and A-5's are guns of the past. The A-5 was never a popular gun with clay target shooters like the Model 12 was in the target grades of yesteryear. Some still have collector interest and value left, at least in the target and high grades though it is waning as well in lieu of today's multi adjustable target guns. Today's hunters have a staggering array of shotguns available with as many adjustment capabilities and recoil reduction features as some target guns plus finishes that don't look like the gun was dragged across the bottom of the boat after a few hunts. Combine all that with cycle anything from target loads to the biggest nastiest field loads around with multi-choke capability and a host of aftermarket products that were unheard of only two decades ago and it's not hard to see why the old guns we grew up on hve slipped in popularity. Now add in an aging and disappearing demographic that enjoys those type of firearms and your market is quite limited.
 
the spank said:
Today's hunters do not want 2 3/4" guns with fixed chokes. The Model 12's and A-5's are guns of the past. The A-5 was never a popular gun with clay target shooters like the Model 12 was in the target grades of yesteryear. Some still have collector interest and value left, at least in the target and high grades though it is waning as well in lieu of today's multi adjustable target guns. Today's hunters have a staggering array of shotguns available with as many adjustment capabilities and recoil reduction features as some target guns plus finishes that don't look like the gun was dragged across the bottom of the boat after a few hunts. Combine all that with cycle anything from target loads to the biggest nastiest field loads around with multi-choke capability and a host of aftermarket products that were unheard of only two decades ago and it's not hard to see why the old guns we grew up on hve slipped in popularity. Now add in an aging and disappearing demographic that enjoys those type of firearms and your market is quite limited.
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I would agree with this. I am a relatively young collector and hunter but I typically go for older, better made firearms and actively collect military surplus. I have considered purchasing both an A5 and a Model 12 at times. However, even though some of the staple firearm manufacturers are no longer producing the same quality they used to (Remington, Winchester) in the shotgun area there is a lot of competition. After lots of humming and hawing I went with a Weatherby SA-08 Deluxe. It has a checkered walnut stock with a high gloss finish, it has a nice deep bluing, the bolt and bore are chrome plated and the adjustable gas cylinders allow me to cycle moderate Trap loads and magnum hunting loads using a multitude of chokes and it only weighs 6lbs. Basically, for $700 I got absolutely everything I will ever need out of a 12 gauge shotgun and it came with a warranty and the Weatherby name. Hard to beat that for value in my opinion.
 
I'm with starr16...I own an early 60's Auto 5 and a 39 model 12. They have battle scars they wear with pride and function like new. I've had brand new expensive shotguns of the plastic type let me down, even after the so called fixes. I doubt most of them will function as good when they are decades old. This doesn't mean I think prices on the old stuff should soar. I am also from the younger generation.
 
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