Lee Enfield barrel and stock question

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Engineer03

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Gentlemen,

I am new to owning Lee Enfields but have admired them for a long time. I now own one and I'm quite excited about it. I took it to the range and found that it wasn't as accurate as I had hoped. I am not a great shot but I'm better than the 6" group from a supported position at 50 meters though. After shooting I checked out the rifle but could find nothing obviously wrong. The only thing I found was that when the muzzle and forestocks were held firmly, the muzzle could seemingly be moved inside the stocks. I don't know if this is normal or acceptable, however I can't imagine that it is. I would like to ask my fellow cgn'ers if this is normal or what I can do to fix it. Thanks

Engineer
 
Most likely you have wood shrinkage and you no longer have the required 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip.

At the top of this webpage is a sticky called "Lee Enfield On-line Knowledge Libraries (Index of Articles)" with a wealth of Enfield information.

Toward the bottom of the page you will see "1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (Complete Set)"
http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=335-1991-No.4-%28All-Marks%29-.303-Rifle-Manuals-%28Complete-Set%29

And then "1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions" with the bedding information you need to tighten up the fore stock.
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerdog/generalstorage/edhortonmanuals/No4Mk1Arm.pdf

Remove the forward trigger guard screw and remove the bushing and leaving the bushing out install and tighten the forward trigger guard screw. If your stock tightens up and you gain some up pressure then you have wood shrinkage. Meaning the bushing "may" be too long and the draws area "might" need shimming, or the stock may just need a long drink of raw linseed oil.

If it was my fore stock the first thing I would do is get a wallpaper wetting tray and soak the fore stock in a 50/50 mix of "RAW" linseed oil and turpentine. Leave the fore stock soak overnight or longer, you want the stock to soak up as much of the mixture as possible. This should allow the wood to hydrate and swell, if your lucky this long drink of raw linseed oil "may" be all you need.

If the fore stock does not tighten up after soaking then the bushing will need to be shortened and the draws area shimmed. The forward trigger guard screw is the fulcrum point of the fore stock and when you shim the rear of the stock it moves downward and the fore end tip moves upward. This increases the up pressure and improves/tunes your barrel vibrations and improves accuracy.
 
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Thanks for the pointer and advice big ed. I will check out the sticky more closely now. I looked at it briefly but saw that most of the pics are no longer active so I didn't dig as deep as I should have. The stock seems to have been refinished with something, hopefully shellac like finish as opposed to a urethane. I can strip shellac but the urethane may give trouble. Will soaking the stock in linseed oil work if it has been coated in urethane?
 
The barrel is supposed to move at the muzzle, but should be bearing down on the wood. If it is touching but not bearing hard, slip in a piece of cardboard (from an ammo box) under the barrel to increase the pressure, and try that.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the butt stock appears to be from a No 1 rifle and all the metal bits look fairly new. What are the chances this is a de-sporterized rifle that wasn't properly installed in the forestock, aka up pressure at the muzzle as has been mentioned.
 
Ganderite said:
The barrel is supposed to move at the muzzle, but should be bearing down on the wood. If it is touching but not bearing hard, slip in a piece of cardboard (from an ammo box) under the barrel to increase the pressure, and try that.
Click to expand...

Ganderite, forgive me but if the stock is loose and you place a shim under the barrel you are taking a chance of cracking the rear of the fore stock in the draws area.

It would be best if the OP learned about his Enfield rifle and learn how the bedding works on a Enfield rifle. The fore stock has only "one" bedding screw and the rear draws area acts like the second missing screw and tightens up the rear of the stock.

When checking the up pressure you grasp the fore stock and place you thumb on the barrel and press upward. You then release your thumb quickly like snapping your fingers and the barrel should "snap" back in position. Remember the fore stock is to be pushing "upward" on the barrel and the 2 to 7 pounds was how the rifle was tuned with issued ammunition.

Example, any Enfield rifle sent to Holland and Holland for conversion to a No.4 (T) sniper rifle was rejected outright and sent back to their owning organizational unit if it did not have the required 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip. Meaning Holland and Holland was not going to mess with a Enfield rifle that had not been "regulated" by a armourer to shoot issued ammo.

Even rifles like the Remington 700 had a raised section at the fore end tip that gave the rifle 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure.

RSbedding_0303E_zps36d5122b.jpg
 
I know how to test barrel pressure with my thumb. I was taught that trick in the 40s, and have done it a few times since. Especially when buying a rifle from a rack of them to choose from.

if the barrel is floating, a piece of cardboard under the barrel might give enough pressure to see if solves the accuracy issue.

But first make sure the main screw in front of the mag is tight. I slack it off when storing the rifles.
 
This rifle is actually a no4 Mkii that was formerly of RAF issue. I purchased it locally from gentleman who has been a member of my gun club for many years. I removed the screw from the trigger guard to remove the bushing as described by big Ed and discovered that there was no bushing or spring washer. I'm not sure this is actually related to my problem however I'm sure it doesn't help. I need to get a replacement bushing and spring washer. Does anyone know of a supplier who may stock these parts? The wood seems very dry so I'm also going to use the raw linseed oil and turpentine 50/50 mix to soak all the wood components. I hope that helps. Thanks for the tip about checking the barrel upward pressure. Mine does not seem to snap so I suspect that may be a big part of the problem.
 
Engineer03 said:
This rifle is actually a no4 Mkii that was formerly of RAF issue. I purchased it locally from gentleman who has been a member of my gun club for many years. I removed the screw from the trigger guard to remove the bushing as described by big Ed and discovered that there was no bushing or spring washer. I'm not sure this is actually related to my problem however I'm sure it doesn't help. I need to get a replacement bushing and spring washer. Does anyone know of a supplier who may stock these parts? The wood seems very dry so I'm also going to use the raw linseed oil and turpentine 50/50 mix to soak all the wood components. I hope that helps. Thanks for the tip about checking the barrel upward pressure. Mine does not seem to snap so I suspect that may be a big part of the problem.
Click to expand...

The forward trigger guard screw is the fulcrum point of the fore stock just like a kids teeter totter.

fulcrumpoint1-1_zpseaibhsf4.jpg


If you have wood shrinkage the bushing will be too long and the fore stock can rock back and forth and will sling bullets all over.

And when you shim the rear draws area the rear of the fore stock moves downward and the fore end tip moves upward. The 2 to 7 pounds of up pressure is used to "tune" or regulate the rifle to improve your accuracy and smaller group sizes.

barrelvibes-1_zpskydtbbib.jpg


You have two manuals on bedding the Enfield rifle, the "Canadian No.4 manual" and the "Canadian Marksman" on center bedding the Enfield rifle for competition.
"STUDY" these two manuals and the bedding points and their effect on accuracy, you will see "stock" bedding and competition bedding and the effect on group sizes at the different shooting ranges.

The Canadian Marksman (Bedding the 7.62mm No.4 Rifle) - 1965 (note you will also see this center bedding method for the .303 No.4 rifles in the Canadian No.4 manual.

http://www.milsurps.com/content.php?r=305-The-Canadian-Marksman-%28Bedding-the-7.62mm-No.4-Rifle%29-1965

And read everything you can find on bedding the Enfield rifle and "Know Thy Rifle". And think about how long its been since a armourer removed the stock and soaked it in a hot tub of raw linseed oil overnight or anyone oiled the stock.

bk1_zpsmg7ayktt.jpg
 
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