(ON) Proposed Wolf, Coyote Rule to Benefit Moose
- Thread starter awndray
- Start date
nowarningshot
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Exactly, very few specifically go after wolves. Predators, by virtue of having litters, can breed up very quickly, putting excess pressure on Big Game animals with much smaller breeding numbers.
Removing the limit is necessary. The wolf and coyote numbers would barely take a dent even they did this, there are far too many and they breed the population up quickly.
Although this may wind some folks up, I hope they don't open it up for non-residents, the outfitters have lost too much income from moose and deer tags reductions and have subsidized with wolf hunting.
Although this may wind some folks up, I hope they don't open it up for non-residents, the outfitters have lost too much income from moose and deer tags reductions and have subsidized with wolf hunting.
Moparlover
CGN frequent flyer
they should open up a hunt for two legged wolves.
I hear ya on that one. Would be nice to get into some of the crown land around the park and go for wolves and yotes. Fat chance I am sure.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Why even put a limit on them??
No limit out here......
Cat
No limit out here......
Cat
Care to elaborate...?
blasted_saber
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- A blue part of Ontario
Because central Ontario has a genetically distinct species of wolf which is bordering on threatened as a population (eastern wolf). When this was proven the government went overboard with regulation on all three (grey, eastern, and coyote). This change will effect those in northern ON who realistically arent ever going to encounter an eastern wolf and only see grey wolves. Guys in southern ON have no restrictions in place, only the need for a small game license as they primarily see coyotes.
It would be nice to see the MNRF get their shat together and quit making a mess of the wildlife in Ontario, it's always too little too late with them and they can't quit meddling with regulations and new programs. How is it that when they cancel the spring bear hunt, introduce tags for wolves with a limit of two, and can't enforce unregulated hunting of moose they expect moose populations to remain stable or increase? Everybody else can see the writing on the wall but it takes them years to do anything about it. I'm glad to see some good changes coming about but holy frig if they didn't micro manage everything to death with dumb decisions we wouldn't have half the problems we do.
You pretty much just summed up EVERY single thing the government has ever been involved in.
I agree
My comment , just sent .
I live in north western Ontario and have for all of my 62 years . For those who don’t know what it looks like it’s a 30 foot wide logging road and then hundreds of miles through solid bush to the next logging road . The meaning , hunters can help with the excess wolf population but in no way can hunters harm the population as it’s simply a matter of access , which there is very little into wolf county . Myself , family members and friends hunted wolves up until tags were required and they were limited to two tags per year . A successful hunt up here can only be done over mostly frozen bait as spot and shoot is almost impossible as it’s rare to run across wolves even though there are a lot of them . Calling will work for coyotes but not so for wolves .
If the new proposal is to stick with the two wolf limit neither i nor family and friends will be interested . It’s an area the size of Texas up here and although wolf hunting is an enjoyable hunt , it’s also a costly one when the price of gas is factored in and sending two pelts to a fur auction house won’t even come close to covering the expenses . In addition across the spring , summer and fall anywhere wolf scat is found , which is anywhere and everywhere , the scat is loaded with moose calf hair , which is the same for bears and coyotes . Moose calves are being taken as soon as they are born and continue to be taken across their first year growing months until they are large enough to run and/or fend off an attack . Spring , summer and fall is the most critical time for moose calves and this is the precise time when they have no protection at all as hunting is not allowed , no open seasons in the north west .
I see this measure as half of a proposal which will do nothing . To do something tags , bag limits and seasons must be eliminated . I can somewhat understand the season on wolves because of the value of winter hides but a coyote is nothing more than a varmint with little hide value compared to the damage they do to moose and deer populations . Stats from Alberta and British Colombia show that one pack of eight wolves will kill one moose every second or third day and one pack of eight coyotes will kill one deer every three days , one elk every four days and in moose country they’ll kill one moose every five days . That’s huge and half way measures based upon political decisions will avail us nothing .
We need open seasons 12 months per year especially in the late spring and summer when the fresh calves are most vulnerable , we need the elimination of bag limits as that is nothing more than a feel good political decision and we need the elimination of the tags as hunters will still be paying a royalty on hides sent in to auction plus the taxable income aspect and the sales taxes within the province on everything from gasoline to sporting goods and ammunition .
Currently there is no open season for any game in north western Ontario , at the very time of greatest predation upon and slaughter of the moose calves .
In my area , Thunder Bay , the dividing line between wolves and coyotes was historically 50 miles north of the city . South of that imaginary line that runs east/west was coyote country while north of that line was wolf country . Not so any more and it hasn’t been for 10 to 15 years . The wolves have steadily moved south in great numbers and have killed off or pushed the coyotes farther south to where the boundary is now the city and HWY . 17 running east/west . The wolves have filled in those 50 miles . Now , look at the moose stats for WMU 13 , which is the Thunder Bay area and 50 miles north to the TransCanada Pipeline . The population has crashed and it was bad enough when the black bear population exploded and has become exponentially worse since the wolf population has replaced much of the coyote population . There are still far too many coyotes who are slaughtering the white tail population and both coyotes and wolves require an immediate intervention that is serious enough to at least impact part of or some of these top end predators .
In closing i’ve lived 62 of my 62 years in the bush in north western Ontario and at one time , for 10 years i owned and operated a hunting , guiding , outfitting service and what i’ve had to say in the above is a reflection of my direct observation on the ground with no political slant . Very soon it will be too late and half way measures ... are just that .
Respectfully
I live in north western Ontario and have for all of my 62 years . For those who don’t know what it looks like it’s a 30 foot wide logging road and then hundreds of miles through solid bush to the next logging road . The meaning , hunters can help with the excess wolf population but in no way can hunters harm the population as it’s simply a matter of access , which there is very little into wolf county . Myself , family members and friends hunted wolves up until tags were required and they were limited to two tags per year . A successful hunt up here can only be done over mostly frozen bait as spot and shoot is almost impossible as it’s rare to run across wolves even though there are a lot of them . Calling will work for coyotes but not so for wolves .
If the new proposal is to stick with the two wolf limit neither i nor family and friends will be interested . It’s an area the size of Texas up here and although wolf hunting is an enjoyable hunt , it’s also a costly one when the price of gas is factored in and sending two pelts to a fur auction house won’t even come close to covering the expenses . In addition across the spring , summer and fall anywhere wolf scat is found , which is anywhere and everywhere , the scat is loaded with moose calf hair , which is the same for bears and coyotes . Moose calves are being taken as soon as they are born and continue to be taken across their first year growing months until they are large enough to run and/or fend off an attack . Spring , summer and fall is the most critical time for moose calves and this is the precise time when they have no protection at all as hunting is not allowed , no open seasons in the north west .
I see this measure as half of a proposal which will do nothing . To do something tags , bag limits and seasons must be eliminated . I can somewhat understand the season on wolves because of the value of winter hides but a coyote is nothing more than a varmint with little hide value compared to the damage they do to moose and deer populations . Stats from Alberta and British Colombia show that one pack of eight wolves will kill one moose every second or third day and one pack of eight coyotes will kill one deer every three days , one elk every four days and in moose country they’ll kill one moose every five days . That’s huge and half way measures based upon political decisions will avail us nothing .
We need open seasons 12 months per year especially in the late spring and summer when the fresh calves are most vulnerable , we need the elimination of bag limits as that is nothing more than a feel good political decision and we need the elimination of the tags as hunters will still be paying a royalty on hides sent in to auction plus the taxable income aspect and the sales taxes within the province on everything from gasoline to sporting goods and ammunition .
Currently there is no open season for any game in north western Ontario , at the very time of greatest predation upon and slaughter of the moose calves .
In my area , Thunder Bay , the dividing line between wolves and coyotes was historically 50 miles north of the city . South of that imaginary line that runs east/west was coyote country while north of that line was wolf country . Not so any more and it hasn’t been for 10 to 15 years . The wolves have steadily moved south in great numbers and have killed off or pushed the coyotes farther south to where the boundary is now the city and HWY . 17 running east/west . The wolves have filled in those 50 miles . Now , look at the moose stats for WMU 13 , which is the Thunder Bay area and 50 miles north to the TransCanada Pipeline . The population has crashed and it was bad enough when the black bear population exploded and has become exponentially worse since the wolf population has replaced much of the coyote population . There are still far too many coyotes who are slaughtering the white tail population and both coyotes and wolves require an immediate intervention that is serious enough to at least impact part of or some of these top end predators .
In closing i’ve lived 62 of my 62 years in the bush in north western Ontario and at one time , for 10 years i owned and operated a hunting , guiding , outfitting service and what i’ve had to say in the above is a reflection of my direct observation on the ground with no political slant . Very soon it will be too late and half way measures ... are just that .
Respectfully
atr, you nailed it, I am 2.5 hrs west of you and have seen the exact same situation unfold in the Fort Frances, Dryden, Kenora and north areas. It's the bears and wolves wiping out the moose, and the wolves and coyotes wiping out the deer. I was born and raised here, as was my father and his father etc...etc... and never has the predator population been so incredibly high. The MNRF really needs to deal with that.
Enough about the "unregulated harvest", that has never changed, and it always worked before. In fact there are far fewer natives taking game than ever before. It's the predators!!!
Enough about the "unregulated harvest", that has never changed, and it always worked before. In fact there are far fewer natives taking game than ever before. It's the predators!!!
Moparlover
CGN frequent flyer
I believe a lot of moose are lost to poaching as well
IMO you shouldn't require ANY hunting license for wolf. Kill as many as possible and you STILL won't touch the population. That's the reality of it they don't want people to know.
tin foil hat on ...... maybe, just maybe the MNRF are ultimately being dictated to by UN Agenda 21. Restricting access to countless hunting areas and massively reducing game population by letting wolves & coyote run out of control. If I put my tin foil hat on a little tighter maybe, just maybe making a lot less food available if it became necessary sure looks like it falls into someone's depopulation agenda. ........ tin foil hat off
Fox also take out a lot of rabbits and partridge. Few seem to talk about that.
tin foil hat on ...... maybe, just maybe the MNRF are ultimately being dictated to by UN Agenda 21. Restricting access to countless hunting areas and massively reducing game population by letting wolves & coyote run out of control. If I put my tin foil hat on a little tighter maybe, just maybe making a lot less food available if it became necessary sure looks like it falls into someone's depopulation agenda. ........ tin foil hat off
Fox also take out a lot of rabbits and partridge. Few seem to talk about that.
Have the season start earlier. That way bear hunters may have the opportunity to take them. Take Away the tags and allow up to 5 wolves and allow party hunting. Treat coyotes like southern Ontario year round season on small game license
