Great Great Great Grandfather's gun (now with pics)

pastway

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I am looking for a little help concerning a muzzle loader that belonged to my great great great grandfather. He was born in 1800, and I grew up on the farm, and still live on the land that he took out as a land grant. The history has been passed down, and only 2 items remain (besides the house and land) that we know were his possessions, a Bible, and this firearm which I now have.

It is obviously the same as this reproduction firearm from Loyalist http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/183540USflint.html

The one I have is the same length, 57 3/4 inches, has the L. Pomeroy marking on the side with the eagle, the P stamp, the dates marked on the side and on the tang, the US marking on the side and buttplate. It has the same looking iron furniture, except that this old one has accumulated some rust. I remember it hung on a beam in the barn when I was a kid in the 50's - 60's, and we used to play with it a bit. At some point dad saw its value as an heirloom and antique, and brought it into the house and hung it over a doorway in the living room. My mother, not seeing it in the same way, decided to spruce it up a bit one day, and without asking gave it a coat of varnish, over the metal as well as the wood, covering rust and all, so that it appears that what was once in the white, but aged, is more now a darker brown (rusted) metal. I once thought of trying to remove the varnish, but have now decided to leave it as is, as that is part of its history, and reminds me of my late mother and father, among other things.

Anyways, at some point in its history it was rather crudely converted to cap lock, so that the flash pan and frizzen?? are missing, and are replaced by a homemade sort of thing for a cap holder. The original part that held the flint is intact, with working spring and trigger. The ramrod is there also.

Now here is the interesting part. The Loyalist Firearm site says it was first made in 1835, but this old one is clearly stamped 1827 both on the side and the tang. Can anyone explain that?

For some time I have thought about buying one of the new ones from Loyalist, but never before seemed to have the money, or other priorities prevented it. Has anyone here dealt with them, or bought one of these? My reason for buying one would be to actually shoot it, not reenacting, but sort of a nostalgia thing, so I am wondering about the safety of actually shooting these, as I obviously would never shoot this heirloom antique one.

I shoot modern cap muzzleloader, but have never owned a flintlock, so could use a little help with that as well, if I decide to buy one. I know I'd need some sort of round ball mold for .69 cal. and some flints, but am not sure where to find the mold. It looks as though Loyalist sells flints.

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
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IIRC, Lee makes a modern one, but if you want to go traditional:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1195/1/MOLD-BAG-680
For even more fun get a folding ladle:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/1157/1/MOLD-BAG-LADLE
Especially fun if you hunt with it, you can recast your ball, sitting around the campfire. I carry a set in my Possibles Bag just for the shock value when out shooting/camping with friends.
Cheers!

Thanks, I didn't know Lee made that size mold.
 
Both Lee and Lyman (alum vs Steel) make molds. If you want a bag mold do not get one from TOW there have been a lot of poor quality ones from their supplier, get one from Callahan's http://www.bagmolds.com/

Get your flints through TOW. Flint prices vary widely from fair value to out to lunch. Also check the traders at the rendezvous in your area for supplies.
 
The Yanks chose the Charleville musket in the 1790s as their military arm and starting making them locally as the Brits were not likely to sell them Brown Bess. I hink it is called the 1797 Springfield. The 1835 version is an All American design but shares alot in common with other older version, including caliber. Not my area as I only touched on it in my military history PhD at RMC.
 
It's quite an heirloom and likely traded out of Maine since before confederation and the Canadians forcing us to buy from them, we martimers bought and traded with the Yanks more than the Canadians.
 
Any chance you could post some pics?

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Looks to be a US Model 1816 (aka Model 1822) musket.

Thanks. That is the what I needed to get started on a web search for this. Looks like there is lots of information out there once I know where to start. I'm not sure why I haven't looked this up before.

It looks like they made essentially the same gun from the 1816 model onward to the 1840 model, so that the 1840 model Loyalist Arms shows is likely the closest I will get to a reproduction gun.
 
Just an observation...Why/what is the purpose of putting what appears to be a handhewn rivet into the rear sling boss in the trigger guard?

I can't answer that.

But the whole conversion from flintlock to caplock looks like something a local blacksmith might do, rather than a gunsmith. The end of the part they made is rather crudely flattened on 2 sides to accept a wrench for screwing it out. I put a small strain on it, but it didn't budge so I'm leaving it alone.

Where the flint would clamp in, there used to be a short hammered bent rod about 1/2 or maybe 3/8 inch in diameter, that made contact with whatever they were using for a primer. I think I lost that part myself years ago, so I might try to reproduce one, but it as well looked like something a blacksmith would form on an anvil.

It would be interesting to know what they were using for a primer as well, for it doesn't look like a 209 primer would work there. You might tape a paper cap over the hole like the ones we used to use in cap guns :) But the touch hole in that homemade part is pretty much rusted closed.
 
From the condition of the lock , it looks like it had a minimal conversion to percussion as the pan is missing, but the item in the flash hole may just be a plug.

1875 Springfield

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_en/idt_55/rifles-1795-springfield.html

1816 Harper's Ferry

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipologia-prodotti.asp/l_it/idt_56/fucili-1816-harpers-ferry.html

1816 Harper's Ferry conversion to percussion

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tip...ucili-1816-harpers-ferry-colt-conversion.html
 
Flayderman's 9th guide has L.Pomeroy of Pittsfield Mass making 21,000 model 1916 from 1817-1840.Lockplate marked American eagle motif over L.Pomeroy:date over US marked vertically behind hammer.
Page 554
 
But the whole conversion from flintlock to caplock looks like something a local blacksmith might do, rather than a gunsmith. The end of the part they made is rather crudely flattened on 2 sides to accept a wrench for screwing it out. I put a small strain on it, but it didn't budge so I'm leaving it alone.

Where the flint would clamp in, there used to be a short hammered bent rod about 1/2 or maybe 3/8 inch in diameter, that made contact with whatever they were using for a primer. I think I lost that part myself years ago, so I might try to reproduce one, but it as well looked like something a blacksmith would form on an anvil.
.

The crudely flattened part is called a drum and was a common conversion from flintlock to percussion. I don't think that percussion caps became common until 1830 or a bit later, so the conversion was probably done then. My guess is that it was not a military conversion and done at some time after its military service. By the 1830s, percussion caps as we know them today, had become standard in the percussion system having evolved from powder then pellets and tubes. While paper tape caps were used in some military rifles in the 1850s, a gun using them would have had a piece for holding and feeding them to the nipple.

cheers mooncoon



 
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^b: I had no idea that paper tape caps were used in actual firearms! I thought they were made for toy cap guns.

they were tried only lasted for couple of years if that long, I think. The photo of the tape that I saw, was a grey brown paper and the individual caps looked more voluminous that modern cap gun caps.

cheers mooncoon
 
Was likely a nipple on that hole that held a percussion cap. The old nipples were soft broke often.

That part is somewhat rusted, but it doesn't look like there was a threaded-in nipple there. The whole thing really looks like what a blacksmith might produce, not an armoury.
 
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