tt30 found
- Thread starter Flamingchicken
- Start date
Seen quite a few transitional models in Canada from whatever import TradeEx was selling last. I wasn't able to find any original matching examples though so I passed on them. Jacques had a handful for sale over the years. Is anyone aware of any original matching "light refurb" examples that made it through? It seems the overwhelming majority of prewar and wartime refurbs got replacement barrels or trigger modules.
I haven't found my true original TT30 yet, only 1934 transitional TT30 in original condition with matching mag. Actually with some many refurbs and 199 retail price most sellers think I'm nut when I ask for a good pictures in a good light. "It's just a cheapo TT pistol! What more do you want from me apart from this beautiful blurry picture?". Well, bad for them if they think all cats are grey, I would have paid premium for original firearm.
gewehr76
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There is one at collectors source for 1200$ refurbished to TT33 specks. Original non refurbished will be hard to find as soviets converted all of them to 33s even before the war. So if the one found is conversion then it's as good as it get's.
Well, there were many changes over production. IIRC "Tokarev Model 1930" was accepted for army trials only, and then "Tokarev Model 1933" was accepted for mass production.
TT30 vs TT33:
- removable section in handle back strap vs monolithic handle
- hammer is closer to rear sight and hammer assy is different vs hammer is further from rear sight
- shape of trigger is different
- barrel lugs only half way around the barrel vs all way around.
So when you see a TT with removable section in the back strap and original barrel with lugs all the way around ppl call it "transitional".
TT30 vs TT33:
- removable section in handle back strap vs monolithic handle
- hammer is closer to rear sight and hammer assy is different vs hammer is further from rear sight
- shape of trigger is different
- barrel lugs only half way around the barrel vs all way around.
So when you see a TT with removable section in the back strap and original barrel with lugs all the way around ppl call it "transitional".
I've had the same issue with trying to buy Tokarev pistols from many sellers, even reputable milsurp dealers. In our gun culture it seems that monetary value somehow completely defines the firearms entire value and is more important than its history. It's really too bad. I've had the same issue with 91/30s.
Seems I should have asked for photos of the transitional examples instead of assuming parts were replaced.
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
Check out this thread. It happens.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1079778-TT30-or-TT33?highlight=tt+transitional
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1079778-TT30-or-TT33?highlight=tt+transitional
I saw pictures of your tt30 with 2 matching mags, that's a good catch. What would be the difference between first and second transitional models? With so many changes would be the criteria to tell the difference? Officially there were only two models - TT30 and TT33.
P.S. Just checked mine and it is 1935, not 1934, however still in TT30 configuration.
P.S. Just checked mine and it is 1935, not 1934, however still in TT30 configuration.
Thank you. The term "First" or "Second" transitional variants came from Mr. F.A.Datig's book " Soviet Russian Tokarev TT pistols and cartridges 1929-1953". Here are some quotes from this excellent work:"...., all specimens of the Model TT30 Tokarev pistol noted have been relatively identical, this referring only to the true TT30 pistols of 1933 manufacture and not the"transitional" variants of 1934 and 1935..."
..."Specimens dated "1934" differ from the former only in that they incorporate the TT 33 type barrel whose locking lugs(grooves) encompass the entire circumference of the barrel. Hammer group assemblies are found to have only very minor differences, all other components being relatively identical. Pistols of 1934 manufacture are, for all practical purposes, merely TT 30 models but with TT 33 barrels. Because they are neither true TT30 types, nor are they ultimate TT 33, we prefer to designate them as TT 30, " First transitional Variation"...
..."Examples of the TT30 model dated 1935 employ not only the TT 33 type barrel but also a slightly variant hammer group assembly and may or may may display other minor technical variances. They do, however, still carry the insert unit in the blackstrap, easily visible outwardly, which may be said to be the only major holdover from the original TT 30 pistol of 1933 manufacture. Consequently, because of the feature remains in evidence, we have given this type the designation, "TT30, Second Transitional Variation."
..."From the foregoing it becomes clear that the first three years of series productions 1933' 1934 and 1935, included four variations,
1933 - Original TT30 pistols(the only year for this type)
1934 - - TT30, First transitional variation
1935 - TT30, Second Transitional Variation..."
All of the above from Mr. Datig's book.
I want to make a stand alone thread about these amazing pistols...There is an excellent work posted on Russian resource regarding history of these pistols, plus I have 1967 dated Dr. Bolotin's book(History and development of Soviet Firearms for past 50 years) from where I can produce some quotes...
..."Specimens dated "1934" differ from the former only in that they incorporate the TT 33 type barrel whose locking lugs(grooves) encompass the entire circumference of the barrel. Hammer group assemblies are found to have only very minor differences, all other components being relatively identical. Pistols of 1934 manufacture are, for all practical purposes, merely TT 30 models but with TT 33 barrels. Because they are neither true TT30 types, nor are they ultimate TT 33, we prefer to designate them as TT 30, " First transitional Variation"...
..."Examples of the TT30 model dated 1935 employ not only the TT 33 type barrel but also a slightly variant hammer group assembly and may or may may display other minor technical variances. They do, however, still carry the insert unit in the blackstrap, easily visible outwardly, which may be said to be the only major holdover from the original TT 30 pistol of 1933 manufacture. Consequently, because of the feature remains in evidence, we have given this type the designation, "TT30, Second Transitional Variation."
..."From the foregoing it becomes clear that the first three years of series productions 1933' 1934 and 1935, included four variations,
1933 - Original TT30 pistols(the only year for this type)
1934 - - TT30, First transitional variation
1935 - TT30, Second Transitional Variation..."
All of the above from Mr. Datig's book.
I want to make a stand alone thread about these amazing pistols...There is an excellent work posted on Russian resource regarding history of these pistols, plus I have 1967 dated Dr. Bolotin's book(History and development of Soviet Firearms for past 50 years) from where I can produce some quotes...
KotKotofeich
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa Valley
Given the reports of other members here and my own observations, it seems that Mr. Datig may be incorrect. At least in regards to the locking lugs on barrel.
Looking forward to your thread and the discussion.
Thank you. That is exactly what I thought about "transitional" types - those are names collectors had to come up with to distinguish the changes. Interesting reading. Does author describes all other small changes in his book? What looks strange to me is that author links variations to years. In my experience with Soviet firearm changes in production were rolled out as required, not from the beginning of the year. I will be looking forward to the dedicated thread. I'm sure North American collectors could contribute a lot to the topic.
