Turkish 12 Ga semi AR style guns

tootall · Dec 29, 2015

Jim Guns · Dec 29, 2015

As many people may add, a lot of the guns you see coming out of Turkey are mostly made by the same manufacturers, they are more brand exporters than they are actually firearm manufacturing companies. Even when you buy that name brand American shotgun, now-a-days chances are it was made in Turkey.

Claven2 · Dec 29, 2015

Jim Guns said:
Even when you buy that name brand American shotgun, now-a-days chances are it was made in Turkey.

If you buy Weatherby, yes.

The standbys (like Remington 870's) are still made in the USA.

Mossberg_590A1 · Dec 29, 2015

Thanks, for a much needed thread.

shores · Dec 29, 2015

Can someone simplify which vendors say they will be carrying each model instead of trying to filter through all the duplicate threads and heresay?

Boomer686 · Dec 29, 2015

Definitely some interesting models on the way!

City Boy · Dec 29, 2015

One of the site sponsors said that there are three different brand names that these can be imported as, so I imagine they are probably all more or less the same. I think that thread may have been deleted .... There was some secrecy due to perceived competition to get these to market. There are some YouTube videos of guys firing these shotguns into the air and speaking Turkish.

TV-PressPass · Dec 30, 2015

I checked the FRT of the Akdal Mka 1919 very recently, and it was still restricted at that time.

grelmar · Dec 30, 2015

It's all second hand info at this point, and we're relying on what the dealers are saying (which is limited because of business competitive reasons), but this is what I've gleaned so far:

There are at least three different manufacturing concerns that are going to be making guns that fit the bill. Some are bigger and more established, some are fairly new. The shotgun production market in Turkey is exploding, and there are a lot of "spin off" outfits comprised of people from the larger outfits setting out on their own. Basically similar to what happened in the US with the AR manufacturing market.

Quality is going to be all over the map until things settle down.

The batch coming in the new year are all going to be gas guns. Personally, I would like to see some of the delayed blowback/mechanical systems get used. They're easier to maintain and have better long term reliability (you'll get my Winchester Model 50s out of my cold, dead hands - an unfairly maligned platform that's dead simple to clean and maintain, and will last forever if you do). There's some quirks to the gas systems being used by Turkish manufacturers that I'm not fond of - excessive use of rubber O-Rings in the gas system is a guaranteed fail point for long term use. They harden and wear out over time, and by the time that comes to pass (years down the road), good luck finding an exact replacement.

They all use the same mag system. Apparently, this was standardized about a decade ago in Turkey, and all the manufacturers agreed to use the same magazines. This is good news, because whatever you go with, you'll be able to get spare mags for it. This is also both good and possibly bad news on another front - there are a number of pump guns that use the same magazines. We'll have to see what Miramachi has to say about this, because it will have a significant impact on mag capacities for both manual and semi auto shotguns coming from Turkey in the future.

Some makers are using Aluminum/Alloy lowers, some are using Polymer lowers. Don't buy the hype about either side of this one - my experience with Turkish manufacturing (which is limited, but more than "none" ) is that in both cases, you're just as likely to get something solid and reliable, or potentially fail prone, with either metal or polymer lowers. It really depends on the manufacturer. Whichever route you decide to go, the most important thing will be to buy from a dealer you trust, because that's who you're going to end up talking to if something goes wrong.

Hope that helps. This is based on a limited but of inside info from talking off the record with a couple of the dealers. Everything is subject to change once the guns actually hit the market. All I know is that I'm going to suck it up and fork over some cash on one of these in the new year, and I hope I guess right and make the right bet.

CDTSA won't know what hit them in the 3-gun matches this year, from the looks of things. I know a number of club members who are circling these threads like vultures looking for a leg up for next year.

st1264 · Dec 30, 2015

Here's the BR99 in action:

badboybeeson · Dec 31, 2015

TV-PressPass said:
I checked the FRT of the Akdal Mka 1919 very recently, and it was still restricted at that time.

Until the license importer gets involved with the lab and asks for a review that model well stay restricted.

Claven2 · Dec 31, 2015

st1264 said:
Here's the BR99 in action:

Wow, impressive cyclic rate. Should be interesting to see what happens with pump-gun mag compatibility and whether it results in standard capacity 10+ rd mags. Great for 3 gun types.

What I find irksome is that there will be gun control lobby pressure to get these out of our hands based on cyclic rate. The video shows a shooter dumping mags onto one target. I suspect that if you are arcing the gun and aiming at successive targets, the high cyclic rate will matter a lot less - no different than any other semi-auto shotgun. (Advantage being reload times with box mags vs. tube).

I look forward to these ending up in CGN'ers hands for average-joe reviews not glossed up by retailers.

I also wonder how long (if ever?) before I see these replacing Xrtema2's, A400's and SBE2's in goose fields and duck blinds? If they are all that and a bag of chips, $1000 is a LOT cheaper than an $1800 Beretta or Benelli.

grelmar · Dec 31, 2015

Claven2 said:
I also wonder how long (if ever?) before I see these replacing Xrtema2's, A400's and SBE2's in goose fields and duck blinds? If they are all that and a bag of chips, $1000 is a LOT cheaper than an $1800 Beretta or Benelli.

Probably never. For some of us, a gun is a gun and we'll use what works. For a huge percentage of hunters, a lot of it is about elitism and bragging rights. "Lookie my $4000 custom fit to my shoulder, stock made from the last surviving giant redwood, hand polished by slave virgins from the maldives..." gun.

Claven2 · Dec 31, 2015

grelmar said:
Probably never. For some of us, a gun is a gun and we'll use what works. For a huge percentage of hunters, a lot of it is about elitism and bragging rights. "Lookie my $4000 custom fit to my shoulder, stock made from the last surviving giant redwood, hand polished by slave virgins from the maldives..." gun.

I think you might be thinking of Skeet and Trap shooters there. Wanna see something funny? Go to a high-brow trap match, and pick up a yellow paperclip and shout "Is anyone missing their gold inlay?". Hilarious. Same for some upland game shooters.

Waterfoulers are notorious for using very practical composite-stocked guns these days - not hand crafted works or art - as they will see lots of mud in the layout blinds of the central provinces and salt in the marshes on the coasts. The most popular models out there from the Italian makers are noteworthy for having baked-on finishes (ala Cerakote), often with dipped camo patterns like MAX4, MAX5. The Xtrema2 I use was selected not based on brand or price, but based on 3.5" BB round reliability, having a recoil-soaking compensation system in it, and being impervious to rust as everything is either chromed or covered in Beretta's version of cerakote from the factory. If I could get that for $800 less, I would have.

grelmar · Dec 31, 2015

Claven2 said:
I think you might be thinking of Skeet and Trap shooters there. Wanna see something funny? Go to a high-brow trap match, and pick up a yellow paperclip and shout "Is anyone missing their gold inlay?". Hilarious. Same for some upland game shooters.

Waterfoulers are notorious for using very practical composite-stocked guns these days - not hand crafted works or art - as they will see lots of mud in the layout blinds of the central provinces and salt in the marshes on the coasts. The most popular models out there from the Italian makers are noteworthy for having baked-on finishes (ala Cerakote), often with dipped camo patterns like MAX4, MAX5. The Xtrema2 I use was selected not based on brand or price, but based on 3.5" BB round reliability, having a recoil-soaking compensation system in it, and being impervious to rust as everything is either chromed or covered in Beretta's version of cerakote from the factory. If I could get that for $800 less, I would have.

True. There are some very practical shotgun hunters out there. Shouldn't lump them all in the same category.

However, if I ever go "into the pink" - it will because I read "If you can't afford an brand X elitist ####waddle over-under, you can't afford to shoot" comment one too many times.

They're friggin scatterguns. The tech is only slightly more recent than dirt. It's not hard, and they SHOULD be inexpensive.

Claven2 · Dec 31, 2015

grelmar said:
and they SHOULD be inexpensive.

Would that this were always true!

Even these turkish guns, at around $1000 a pop, are not "inexpensive" really. Consider for a moment that Remington can sell a machined steel 870 Express for about $400 CANADIAN with a $.72 CAD!

Just saying...

tootall · Dec 31, 2015

There certainly is a premium to be paid for anything "black" or tacticool.

geologist · Dec 31, 2015

My problem is that I can go to a gun store and have 4 O/Us placed on the display case from $1000 - $5000 and every time when I shoulder them without looking at the price tag, the one that fits me best and points most naturally is the most expensive one in the group.............

City Boy · Jan 1, 2016

Do these separate into uppers and lowers? Looks like at least one model does.

Claven2 · Jan 1, 2016

geologist said:
My problem is that I can go to a gun store and have 4 O/Us placed on the display case from $1000 - $5000 and every time when I shoulder them without looking at the price tag, the one that fits me best and points most naturally is the most expensive one in the group.............

Then you have bad luck!

"off the shelf" guns are an attempt to make a gun that best fits and average man, all makers see that differently. The "best" pointing and shouldering shotguns for skeet/trap types wear custom stocks made to order with camber and cast built into the stock specifically for the shooter that is having the stock made.

The next "tier" down will offer standard stocks with shims offering a minimal amount of adjustment in both planes - many Berettas offer that feature.

Some guys luck out and a Browning Citori (or something like that) fits perfect right out of the box.

But then, I don't buy those guns as I am not a skeet/trap shooter.

Turkish 12 Ga semi AR style guns

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