Savage Axis negativity?

LawrenceN said:
A little background. I have some friends who are newbie hunters, and being an old fart with a lot of experience, they've asked my advice and input regarding the first hunting rifle purchase. I've given them my thoughts, based on my experiences and 50 yrs. of shooting, taking pains to make sure they understand that it's only MY opinion and they will have to ultimately make up their own minds as to what they want. That said, I've read a lot of posts that slam the Savage Axis rifle in .308. I have very little personal experience with Savage arms, having only owned a .22 that performed quite well, but my good buddy has hunted with a heavy barrel .308 that has performed well for him over many years. Is the Axis that bad of a rifle? What are the issues? Accuracy? Workmanship? Mechanics? I'd really appreciate some input from those who own, or have used, that particular rifle. I've seen some very reasonably priced ones on the EE and have debated about steering my friends toward them as an entry level hunting rifle that won't break the bank. I'd hate to put them on to a clunker.
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Tell them that they are looking for Ruger American. Cold hammer forged barrel, steel to steel bedding, bolt with three lugs, 70 degree bolt throw and decent trigger.
 
Nestor said:
Cold hammer forged barrel
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Although this has nothing to do with the Axis or the American, can someone tell me why a cold hammer forged barrel is a positive feature? Lots of people seem to list this as a selling point without really understanding what it means. I am asking an honest question, what makes it better? Cold hammer forging has the highest tooling cost, but once tools are paid for it is the fastest and cheapest method of rifling a barrel. No match grade barrels are cold hammer forged (to my knowledge), most match barrels are button rifled and some are cut.
 
The hammering process produces an exceptional finish on the end product. While interior finish is very good also the bore surface becomes work hardened in the beating process. The result is a very durable, long lasting barrel. The accuracy of the bore and groove dimensions should be fairly high too.
 
Nestor said:
The hammering process produces an exceptional finish on the end product. While interior finish is very good also the bore surface becomes work hardened in the beating process. The result is a very durable, long lasting barrel. The accuracy of the bore and groove dimensions should be fairly high too.
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I have heard of the durability aspect. I have had a few hammer forged barreled rifles, but never one that I've put more than a few hundred through (may be close to 500 through my .300 H&H) so I can't attest to that, it may be interesting to compare.

I think a mass produced button rifled barrel may be less consistent than a mass produced hammer forged barrel, but a hammer forged barrel of any sort is unlikely to out shoot a well done cut or button rifled barrel.
 
You are probably right, but it will last much longer while maintaining decent accuracy. With the modern hammering process you can also take care of the chamber. If you will pair it up with three lugs on Ruger's bolt, you are getting yourself a strong action that will last you a long, long time. Quite important factor if you are budget counsious.
 
Nestor said:
Tell them that they are looking for Ruger American. Cold hammer forged barrel, steel to steel bedding, bolt with three lugs, 70 degree bolt throw and decent trigger.
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The American is on the upper end of the "budget rifle" offerings, but remember Ruger casts and MIM's everything including bolts and receivers. I think they would cast a barrel if they could figure out how to do it....lol
 
A few years old now but enjoy...

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/841972-Crash-Test-Axis-THE-FUN-BEGINS

Butt ugly rifles but ergonomics are very good and they have run very well for me. They take a beating and just keep on running.

Others I am enjoying or have enjoyed.. Ruger American (great handling but accuracy was mid pack at best) and Rem 783 (really enjoying this set up and will be used in some custom builds shortly). Very positive things for the Wby Vanguard, and Tikka T3 too.

Eeeny meenie.

Jerry

PS.. just set up a customer Axis into a Boyds stock. The current triggers come sealed at a very heavy pull... damn lawyers. I am sure if you wanted to get rid of the goop, you could adjust the pull weight but a timney was swapped in which works much better anyways... so only real negative now is very heavy trigger pull that is no longer easy to adjust.
 
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Nestor said:
Actually I believe that both the receiver and bolt are milled out of one piece of 4140 chrome-moly bar stock on Ruger American.
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I'd be shocked if they are.... They cast all their center fire receivers like the #1 and 77's which are much more expensive.

Well #### they do use forging for the American receiver at least....+1 for the Ruger!
http://www.gunsandammo.com/reviews/all-american-ruger-american-rifle-review/
Now I gotta find one in 7mm-08....damn CGN
 
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I'm handling quite a lot of the different rifles and I'm nearly sure that these parts on Ruger are not cast. Hold on. I have a day off, so I can probably Google the answer out :)
 
Hitzy said:
I'd be shocked if they are.... They cast all their center fire receivers like the #1 and 77's which are much more expensive.
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http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2012/5/22/looking-at-the-ruger-american-rifle/

That rather tall order was accomplished by building the new gun from a wholly different set of design parameters than had been used in the past. Gurney described it as, “Trying to make things so they go together the same way, the first time, every time.” For instance, unlike the Hawkeye’s receiver, which is made from an investment casting, the American’s receiver is turned from bar stock steel on CNC machining centers, making it even more economical to manufacture. At the time of this writing only long-action models were available, but a short-action was already listed in the 2012 catalog.

Make sense to me. Its more economical to machine from bar stock compare to cast a piece then mill/turn it.
 
They're okay, I think they've included the Accutrigger in the Axis 2. It's a decent trigger and really helps. I went with a Ruger American Compact stainless for my son last Christmas...the trigger once adjusted to it's lightest setting is adequate, not world class but not an impediment to good shooting...the only thing was the action was a bit stiff. I took some 800 grit sandpaper and polished the bolt and it's path through the action, and finished with a bit of 1000 grit. The action is smooth as silk now...no longer feels like a bargain rifle. She also shoot 3/4" groups at 100 yards with Nosler 140 grain Accubonds, and is mountain rifle light in weight. Perhaps the best bargain rifle is the Weatherby Vanguard 2, made by Howa for Weatherby...I checked it out in the store with my son but he found it a bit heavy and preferred the Ruger. The Vanguard 2 is a bit more money than the Axis or American, but still a bargain...if I were advising a new shooter on a budget, I'd send them to check out all three and pick the one that feels best. An hour or two with some fine sandpaper can make a bargain rifle cycle like a premium one.
 
Vanguard 2 has a weak spot however. It's the way the bolt is hold in the action. Just by very small tab barely visible inside the receiver. I was told that ripping the bolt off the action is too damn easy on them. I can see why.
 
A few weeks ago, I helped a colleague from work to purchase his first hunting rifle.
He got a like new Savage Axis II XP in 308 Winchester for $325.00
We went to the range, adjusted the rifle, and he went hunting the weekend after and shot a nice deer with it.

I own much better rifles, but I must say the Savage Axis II XP is an outstanding value, it feels very good, has excellent accuracy and it is cheaper than dirt. I wouldn't hesitate to take one hunting.
 
Nestor said:
Ok, yeah that was my impression as well. These parts are not looking like anything cast that I've seen before.
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The Hawkeye and No. 1 recivers are cast. Ruger investment casting is top notch though and investment casting is not a cheap process. I have no doubt that Ruger's cast parts are just as strong as anything else on the market. I think it speaks volumes about Ruger's investment castings if their budget rifle is machined from bar stock and their higher end rifles are cast. Ruger also does investment casting on a contract basis for industries such as aerospace.
 
Nestor said:
Vanguard 2 has a weak spot however. It's the way the bolt is hold in the action. Just by very small tab barely visible inside the receiver. I was told that ripping the bolt off the action is too damn easy on them. I can see why.
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I always felt like the pinned on bolt head design on Savage rifles was a huge design fail.... If the pin ever snapped or fell out which I know is highly unlikely, you could load and fire a round with the bolt completely unlocked....would not be pretty.
 
cam1936 said:
The Hawkeye and No. 1 recivers are cast. Ruger investment casting is top notch though and investment casting is not a cheap process. I have no doubt that Ruger's cast parts are just as strong as anything else on the market. I think it speaks volumes about Ruger's investment castings if their budget rifle is machined from bar stock and their higher end rifles are cast. Ruger also does investment casting on a contract basis for industries such as aerospace.
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if still not they did for a while the mrc 1999 also...
 
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