Time to Legalize High Fence Hunting in Manitoba??

Or any right, for that matter. In some provinces you can't even charge a trespass fee to hunters. Private land is for tax revenue, we have no property rights in this socialist utopia.

You can thank Pierre Trudeau for leaving that out of the Charter.
 
question: what treaty are metis involved with?

All treaties. They were specifically named in treaty 3, referred to in the rest.

Back then Metis were referred to as "half-breed" by the Europeans intent on governing this land. There are three recognized Aboriginal groups in Canada, First Nation, Metis and Inuit.
 
Or any right, for that matter. In some provinces you can't even charge a trespass fee to hunters. Private land is for tax revenue, we have no property rights in this socialist utopia.

Yeah, I live in one of the provinces that doesn't allow charging for hunting. Its not even so much that I want to charge for access to my land, as I would rather pay than beg to hunt on someone else's. Socialism didn't make us all rich, it made us all beggers.
 
I have to agree that something needs to be done about the number of animals harvested under the newly acquired rights by metis hunters. There is simply too many hunters with 'rights' to harvest in-measurable amounts of animals. How can the Government ensure plentiful herds if they think the animals are being wiped out by disease,harsh weather, or traffic accidents?
I have several friends whom have acquired these rights recently. The number of animals they have harvested has risen drastically. At one time they would purchase a tag and fill that tag. Now they think the animals are limitless.(I guess they are) These people are depleting our herds!
Just read anything Vince Creighton has written on the depleting moose population. This guy is the foremost expert in his field.
I would love to start a movement for all non-treaty hunters to not purchase game tags this year. Not hunt this year. And not fund the governments stupidity! The only problem is who wants to give up a pass time they are so passionate about. Although if we don't do it now, there won't be a choice in the future. Hunting seasons will be closed down, and only the ones with 'rights' will be allowed to harvest!
I feel very strongly about this topic. I have chosen my words carefully, and I tried not to offend anyone. Just my two cents.
 
Yeah, I live in one of the provinces that doesn't allow charging for hunting. Its not even so much that I want to charge for access to my land, as I would rather pay than beg to hunt on someone else's. Socialism didn't make us all rich, it made us all beggers.

don't worry as the land owner if the hunters come on anyways its what a $130 fine max? they don't get hit with poaching, nor for any damage...
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Lots of people in AB have come out to a tree stand on their own land only to find some ass hat sitting in it saying he has a right to hunt on the land owners fenced field.




I've noticed the more left leaning a government is, the worse the Wildlife management is. the worse the draws are.. and the same people that are friends and family with people in the government get tags every year. Friend up in timmon ON was telling me that in their group of 20 some odd people nobody has gotten a moose tag in 12 years. yet the same two brothers get one every single year (each) and conveniently have family in the ministry.
 
On the topic of elk, there is a small herd in southern Manitoba. There has never been a license ANYONE could get to harvest one of these elk. Since the rules have changed many of the elk of this herd have been targeted. The hunters think that it is their god given right to harvest elk from this area. I have a real problem with this thinking.
 
don't worry as the land owner if the hunters come on anyways its what a $130 fine max? they don't get hit with poaching, nor for any damage...
,
.

I had a guy come onto my posted land, pull a trap and take it to the field office and report me for trapping on my own land, in the season. When I eventually found out where it was, I went in to pick it up and ask when the reporter was going to be charged with trespassing and interfering with legally placed traps. Nothing. Explained that the lieing, trespassing, trap interfering slime, had caused me to pull that portion of my line because I had to believe that someone who was capable of finding a buried wolf trap was capable of finding the rest. Its a two hour drive one way and that represented hundreds of dollars and god knows how much time wasted. Nothing. Said that someone was snapping traps with sticks and not stealing them. "Oh, that was me, I wanted to see how long it took you to reset it". Uh, you did that? "yeah". "That's a nice little cabin you got going there". You were in my cabin? "yeah".

I think I'd rather have the trespassers and the poachers to be honest; they might act embarrassed, or guilty or sorry. The world has gone crazy.
 
Free riders ride on! The "tragedy of the commons" is sure to affect us all. No private landowner can evade the inevitable result of overuse of public resources. Although conservationists are working hard to acquire habitat, the forces of "entitlement" have overtaken you. You lack the right to self sustainability. Wildlife cannot be privatized. You have no right to protect the resource, no one does, apparently, not even the goverment. For are we not all citizens under the same regime? The regime that would see all depleted than let some be preserved by private individuals or groups.

The stakes are high now, gentlemen. Higher than they have ever been. I'm not kidding if you think you will hunting in manitoba in 10 years. Game cycles aside, wildlife threshhold levels are at critical lows. You merely will be hiking with a firearm under license from the state. Look at pronghorn in Saskatchewan. Only a thousand animals perhaps caught in an endless field of wheat and canola where prairie once stood. Our game fairs no better. Yet we need change now more than ever and some deny the need to act rationally!
 
Seriously guys? It's getting a little disgusting in here. Mostly from very uninformed individuals that can't see that the problem people come from every race, color, religion, age, or locale.

If you had any clue how many law abiding ethical people and members you are attacking and insulting.....

If you must complain about the issues, blame those that own that blame, our government.



EDIT: Thanks to the moderator that cleaned up this thread, much appreciated.
 
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Seriously guys? It's getting a little disgusting in here. Mostly from very uninformed individuals that can't see that the problem people come from every race, color, religion, age, or locale.

If you had any clue how many law abiding ethical people and members you are attacking and insulting.....

If you must complain about the issues, blame those that own that blame, our government.



EDIT: Thanks to the moderator that cleaned up this thread, much appreciated.

I don't know why my posts were deleted.

Cleftwynd - it is not just the Federal government, but the Aboriginal governance that needs to be addressed. There is absolutely zero accountability from either of those two parties.
 
I don't know why my posts were deleted.

Cleftwynd - it is not just the Federal government, but the Aboriginal governance that needs to be addressed. There is absolutely zero accountability from either of those two parties.


I have no clue either, although I did report one reply in this thread, but it wasn't yours!!


I do agree with you, to an extent anyway, having worked with the government and each aboriginal group on these same issues, I have a little history and knowledge about what I speak. Metis in Ontario do NOT have the same freedoms as First Nation, also, less than 1 in 1,000 Metis have harvesting rights, and can not harvest outside of their singular ancestral region. I know that isn't case in every province. However there is much more information that would take hours to post here, and that's not what this thread should be about anyway, nor do I wish to derail it. There are important issues brought up that deserve being discussed without it turning racist or at the very least, racial.
 
Seems there is considerable opposition to protecting large populations of animals using fence. I hope these members opposed to such management techniques are prepared to forego their hunting opportunities once each and every species is under draw or closed. And since landowners are under no obligations to grant hunting permission, don't be surprised when you find yourself unable to locate a hunting spot without the use of a cessna aircraft and a week of your time.

And, with 195,000 people in Manitoba who self identified as aboriginals, (78,830 of that being Metis), growing at 4 times the rest of the Manitoba population (2011 Statcan), Manitoba now has 14% of their 1.282 million peolple who can hunt without license or limit at any time they wish. Perhaps these rights could be extended to all Manitobans? Nobody could claim then that things would not be equal. Do you see the problem now "cleftwynd"?

As for the gentleman "razorbeck" that claimed to have been drawn for elk 3 out of the last 5 years in Manitoba...this isn't the case for the majority of applicants. Just because you drew a tag, it doesn't mean there are a sufficient number of animals. Governments sell more tags than there are animals, which they then claim provides increased opportunities. Real wildlife managers grow herds before they take such measures. Only additional animals can provide added opportunities. Did you apply for elk draw as a landowner? There is a trend in Manitoba and it seems that draw opportunities are going toward resident landowner tags.

Gentlemen, don't let pride and morality cloud judgement and reason. Fencing large productive areas of habitat to prevent poaching and losses from vehicle collisions (which can top 10,000 annually according to MPI and cost many human lives) is not only intelligent, it's practical. No more farmers complaining they lost a few bushels of grain or a couple hundred domestic animals province wide.

It also makes it much easier to monitor and control diseases including chronic wasting disease as these animals are already contained any outbreams are already quarantined. This also addresses "razorbeck's" assertion that high fenced elk and bison in Alberta had a rampant epidemic because of high fence. This couldn't be farther from the truth. Wild populations of animals have a much higher prevalence of disease and this includes bovine tuberculosis and CWD. A few cases of CWD in a captive herd that was contained in a very short period of time is hardly an epidemic. However CWD in wild herds of bame across Alberta and Saskatchewan spread across a huge geograpic range and affecting multiplt herds sounds more alarming to me.

If we hunters and landowners aren't the ones to protect and conserve our wildlife, who will? A fence is just a reasonable response to a confluence of factors that have gotten out of control and put the future of wildlife and hunting in jeopardy and called into question current accepted game management practices within Manitoba.

Is that so wrong, come on?

Manitoba has an epidemic of winter, we have had them before and with controlled harvest the herds all survived quite nicely, 3 or 4 mild winters will have the deer numbers replaced infact already the anecdotal evidence points to an increase in animals

And no fencing will not prevent harm coming to the animals it will create genetic islands and perhaps the freaks we see in increasing numbers on hunting forumns
 
Manitoba has an epidemic of winter, we have had them before and with controlled harvest the herds all survived quite nicely, 3 or 4 mild winters will have the deer numbers replaced infact already the anecdotal evidence points to an increase in animals

And no fencing will not prevent harm coming to the animals it will create genetic islands and perhaps the freaks we see in increasing numbers on hunting forumns

Fenced breeding farms are a bad idea. That's where over population has been shown as responsible for the proliferation of CWD in cervids in the US mid west into Saskatchewan. Hopefully,we have a handle on it,but,it wouldn't take much to send it into an uncontrollable epidemic. We're all screwed,then.
 
Manitoba has an epidemic of winter, we have had them before and with controlled harvest the herds all survived quite nicely, 3 or 4 mild winters will have the deer numbers replaced infact already the anecdotal evidence points to an increase in animals

And no fencing will not prevent harm coming to the animals it will create genetic islands and perhaps the freaks we see in increasing numbers on hunting forumns

Simple question: How is the harvest controlled in Manitoba?
 
white tails went bucks only for the last few years and I personally saw more deer this year then the last 2

If you are here to blame the FN then bugger off
 
white tails went bucks only for the last few years and I personally saw more deer this year then the last 2

If you are here to blame the FN then bugger off

Blame them for our low deer population? I wasn't insinuating that. The drop was caused by severe winters, the rebound by mild ones, so that management was on account of luck.
My point is simply that you can't effectively manage a wild game population unless everyone plays by the same rules. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the areas closed to all hunters for moose, as they're a species not affected by extreme winters.
 
Blame them for our low deer population? I wasn't insinuating that. The drop was caused by severe winters, the rebound by mild ones, so that management was on account of luck.
My point is simply that you can't effectively manage a wild game population unless everyone plays by the same rules. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the areas closed to all hunters for moose, as they're a species not affected by extreme winters.

Every animal is affected by winter deep snow and cold weather is just as hard on moose as it is on deer its just the moose carry a lot more personal resources
 
My point is simply that you can't effectively manage a wild game population unless everyone plays by the same rules.

There are no "same rules" and there never will be. Conservation has priority, then Aboriginal Rights and then the rest of Canadians. But there has to be effective management within these guidelines and I don't believe there will be until both parties are fully on board. I say "both parties" with some sadness as I think the enshrining of one party's rights in the Charter just pushes a wedge between us all.

Consider this case:
http://canlii.ca/t/2c70m

It is interesting to read the perspectives and while the matter was decided against the aboriginal perspectives claimed when the appeal was heard, it does, imo, point towards the direction we are heading. Which is not so good.
 
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