Shot my SMLE for the first time today.

[rci2950]

Pretty sure the headspace is off a bit.


Here are my spent cases. They are all sitting on a flat surface. Primers are not protruding. The case heads are actually cocked on an angle after firing and there is a noticeable ring about a quarter inch from the rim that when you rub your finger over is clearly bulged just as it looks in the pics.

With the #1 i think its not so easy to fix as the #4. I will go back to the gun smith where i bought it. I am sure he has the solution.

 

[j_06]

I believe this is what the rubber o ring fireforming trick and neck sizing only addresses? Could be wrong.

 

[9.3mauser]

The ring is a sign of incipient head/case separation. If that was factory ammo then you might be right about the headspace.

Many (most?) war time LE's had rather generous chambers which account for the lopsided appearance.

 

[rci2950]

The spent cases are also stretched more then i have noticed with my previous Lee Enfield which was a number four. this is a Number one. So that may account for something... Maybe...

 

[rci2950]

if it matters i also noticed i cannot chamber my own empty cases from today even though they were fired in this rifle. I can get the bolt mostly shut if i use a good amount of strength. Then i need to force it back open.

 

[Potashminer]

I partially agree with 9.3mauser. What your picture shows is not a headspace issue for a Lee Enfield No. 1 - "headspace" on this type of rifle is distance between bolt face and the chamber rim that stops the cartridge rim from going forward. The shape of the fired cartridge is about the chamber, which on a Lee Enfield No. 1 has nothing to do with "headspace". A 303 British headspace gauge checks the tolerance for space for the rim between breech face and bolt face. Today, reloaderss might want to try to "headspace" a 303 British cartridge on it's shoulder (to make the brass last for more reloads), but that is not it's design or the intent of British military. All cartridges chambered, fired, and extracted, right? For the design, that is perfect performance - reloading the case was never, ever part of their concern or desire.

 

[kawicrash]

I call my fired cases ".303 Improved", because they are so different from when they went in. I use Lee Collet dies to reload, and I have to put a couple of washers at the base of the cartridge because the fire formed shoulder is so far forward it won't fit in the die without the spacers.
Headspace can be perfect, or even tight, but cases will still stretch due to large chambers. Look what they did to the Ross rifles in WW1.

 

[rci2950]

So the general idea is that i am safe. If i don't plan on reloading then keep on plugging away right?

 

[bigedp51]

In 1914 the chambers of the Enfield rifles had to be reamed larger in diameter and longer to the chamber shoulder. This was done for two reasons, the dirty and muddy conditions of trench warfare and a ammunition scandal in Britain over poorly made ammunition and who was awarded the contracts to make it. Some of this poorly made wartime .303 ammunition would not even chamber until the chambers were reamed larger.

The tilt in the case you see is caused because of the diameter of the chamber and the diameter of the case. The oversized chamber allowed the case to lay in the bottom of the chamber causing the case to be tilted when fired. These fired cases will not chamber again unless they are indexed and aligned the same way they were chambered. And this is called a warped banana shaped case.

If you wish to reload your cases then fire form the cases with a thin rubber o-ring around the base of the case. The o-ring will hold the case against the bolt face and when the bolt is closed it will compress the o-ring and center the case in the rear of the chamber.

Below the rubber o-ring holds the case against the bolt face and the case can not stretch and thin in the base area. Also compressing the o-ring centers the case in the rear of the chamber and no more "tilted cases" after firing,

After the case has been fire formed to your chamber you neck size only and let the case headspace on its shoulder and not the rim. Meaning the case shoulder will now hold the case against the bolt face and no case stretching.

When .303 British cases are not fire formed properly, the will stretch and warp when fired.

Below the "cheap bastards" way to check headspace, measure a new or full length resized case and write it down.

Next just using your fingers start a fired spent primer into the primer pocket.

Now chamber this case slowly closing the bolt and letting the bolt face seat the primer. Remove the case and measure again from the base of the primer to the case mouth and write it down. Now subtract the first case measurement from the second and this will be your head clearance or the "air space" between the rear of the case and the bolt face. Now if you add your rim thickness to your head clearance you will have your exact rifles headspace.

Minimum headspace is .064 and maximum is .074.

A second method is to fit feeler gauges between the receiver and the right locking lug while pushing forward on the bolt. What you are measuring with the feeler gauges is your head clearance or the air space between the rear of the case and the bolt face. With the average rim thickness of .058 if you can fit a feeler gauge over .017 you are over the maximum headspace of .074.

If you do not want to be a cheap bastard then just buy some Enfield headspace gauges. The .067 gauge is a maximum commercial headspace gauge and if the bolt does not close you have a Enfield with good tight headspace.

I fire form my cases with .312 pistol bullets and Trail Boss powder using the o-ring method. This also make the brass butt plate softer when fire forming large quantities of cases.

 

[Garaldtao]

Look closely at the markings on your rifle, specifically the ones on the chamber and barrel. I bet you will find an asterisk (*). Some Enfields were taken out of service and sold to the civilian population with warped chambers and bulged barrels but were perfectly safe to shoot as tested by the armoury of their country of origin. The asterisk with an "X" beside, below or on top of it means that the chamber or barrel has been worked on. For example, I had an AE no4mk1 with an "X" in front of an asterisk on the top centre of the chamber which means the front top part of the chamber was worked on before the barrel was replaced.

Unless you are really into gun smithing, I think you are stuck with bulged brass. Cheapest solution is to buy another Enfield or a P14 or a Martini Enfield, anything that shoots .303 Brit, reload the brass a 2 or 3 times and then shoot them out of the Enfield with the bad chamber. Stay safe while shooting my friend!

 

[gillmeister692]

Big Ed--

Thanks for sharing your expertise. I've saved it for further in-depth study. I have a 1963 No. 1 (Ishapore) and a 1941 No. 4. I reload for both, interchangeably, by always full-length resizing. I might be persuaded to segregate cases by rifle and start using my neck-sizing die.

I wonder what graphics program you're using to create the beautiful mechanical drawings.

Thank you again for the valuable information !

 

[kawicrash]

As noted by Smellie in a past forum, you can also use a doubled up ponytail elastic from Dollarama instead of an o-ring. Cheaper and easier to find.

 

[Eaglelord17]

Just a small point the .067 headspace guage is useless. To the British armourers (the only people who really matter when it comes to head space on a Enfield) there was only two points you need to look for. The bolt needs to close on .064, and cannot be larger than .074. Anywhere else in the middle is acceptable. The whole .067 headspace guage is the whole reason bolt heads for enfields have become uncommon, simply because people have been told that anything beyond that meant the rifle was out of head space and have replaced there bolt heads even though they were within spec.

 

[bigedp51]

As noted by Smellie in a past forum, you can also use a doubled up ponytail elastic from Dollarama instead of an o-ring. Cheaper and easier to find.

A rubber o-ring when compressed "centers" the case in the rear of the chamber and thus prevent tilted cases and better alignment with the bullet and the bore.

A "ponytail" piece of elastic will not center the case in the chamber and prevent the tilted warped case.

The rubber o-ring trick was taught to me by a Canadian with the screen name of terryinvictoria and apparently at one time more than a few Canadians knew this trick. Meaning I sent a PM to Smellie and explained this and the o-ring method does not need to be modified with ponytail rubber bands.

Below when compressed the o-ring becomes oval shaped and the compression of the o-ring forces the case to be "centered" in the rear of the chamber. Meaning the fired case will be centered with the axis of the bore and not tilted after firing.

Save the ponytail rubber bands for the long haired commie pinko perverts or your daughters and keep them out of your Enfield rifles.

 

[tiriaq]

Looking at your photo, the cases are showing signs of incipient separation. Having a broken case extractor on hand might be a good idea. In all likelihood, the rifle will swallow a .074 gauge. I was once given two sandbags full of brass fired in issue rifles. Inspecting them for reloading, about 20% showed signs of separation and had to be culled.
Fireform using the o-ring, then minimally size the cases, or change the bolthead to tighten things up if you want to continue with factory ammunition.

 

[kawicrash]

OK, if you think you know more about Enfields than Smellie...

A rubber o-ring when compressed "centers" the case in the rear of the chamber and thus prevent tilted cases and better alignment with the bullet and the bore.

A "ponytail" piece of elastic will not center the case in the chamber and prevent the tilted warped case.

The rubber o-ring trick was taught to me by a Canadian with the screen name of terryinvictoria and apparently at one time more than a few Canadians knew this trick. Meaning I sent a PM to Smellie and explained this and the o-ring method does not need to be modified with ponytail rubber bands.

Below when compressed the o-ring becomes oval shaped and the compression of the o-ring forces the case to be "centered" in the rear of the chamber. Meaning the fired case will be centered with the axis of the bore and not tilted after firing.

Save the ponytail rubber bands for the long haired commie pinko perverts or your daughters and keep them out of your Enfield rifles.

 

[bigedp51]

Just a small point the .067 headspace guage is useless. To the British armourers (the only people who really matter when it comes to head space on a Enfield) there was only two points you need to look for. The bolt needs to close on .064, and cannot be larger than .074. Anywhere else in the middle is acceptable. The whole .067 headspace guage is the whole reason bolt heads for enfields have become uncommon, simply because people have been told that anything beyond that meant the rifle was out of head space and have replaced there bolt heads even though they were within spec.

Actually the headspace deals with reloaders and non-reloaders alike and the accuracy of reloaded ammunition. Enfield rifles accurized by Fulton of Bisley would have tight headspace settings and may have even had two bolt heads fitted for varying rim thicknesses.

Below is a factory loaded once fired Winchester .303 British case that stretched .009 on the first firing and this rifles headspace was set between .067 and .066. (.0025 over minimum headspace over the GO gauge)

The tighter headspace deals with the fact that commercial cases are designed to be used in smaller diameter and shorter headspaced rifles. Meaning commercial cases are not designed to be fired in long fat military chambers and are "NOT" made to military specifications. The best commercial cases you can get for the Enfield rifle today are Prvi Partizan, they have thicker rims, a larger base diameter and are .010 thicker in the base web area.



I have set Enfield headspace from .058 to .084 and checking case stretching and accuracy and this is what is wrong with your above statement. When I bought Enfield rifles I carried my .067 and .074 headspace gauges. And if the bolt would not close on the .067 gauge and I had a low number bolt head I knew the rifle had very little wear and was a good buy.

The Australians used a .084 gauge as a emergency wartime headspace maximum and why I test fired one of my No.4 Enfield rifles at this extremely long headspace setting. If you look at any SAAMI chamber and cartridge drawing you will see that it lists minimum and maximum headspace and there is .010 between the two. And proper headspace for a new rifle is between the GO and NO-GO gauge which means .003 to play with setting up a new rifle and tight headspace.

I fire form all my cases for my Enfield rifles using the rubber o-ring method so long headspace is not a problem. "BUT" accurized Enfield rifles had tight headspace because it improved accuracy and the rifle had less flexing of the action. So I would advise you to read more about the Enfield rifle and as issued rifles and rifles used in competition.

Below are images from the Australian national champions Jim Sweets Enfield book "Competitive Rifle Shooting" first published in 1947.

Bottom line, military chambers are larger in diameter and longer in headspace than their commercial counterparts. And commercial cases are not made as "heavy duty" as military cases so headspace does matter when shooting commercial cases in military chambers.

Below my center bedded No.4 Mk2 Enfield rifle fitted with two bolt heads and the No.2 bolt head is set at .060 or .004 tighter than the GO gauge or military minimum headspace.

 

[kawicrash]

Lots of good information. There's so much to know and always something to learn.
Were there different bolt heads available for #1's like there are for #4's?
I think I'll go to Princess Auto and get some o-rings. I can see the advantage over the ponytail elastics.

 

[rci2950]

yes thank you. It is going to take me a while to absorb this.

 

[bigedp51]

Lots of good information. There's so much to know and always something to learn.
Were there different bolt heads available for #1's like there are for #4's?
I think I'll go to Princess Auto and get some o-rings. I can see the advantage over the ponytail elastics.

The No.1 bolt heads were not marked like the No.4 bolt heads were but No.1 bolt heads marked with the letter "S" for "spare" were longer. And these "S" marked bolt heads were then lapped for proper headspace.

Also please note when using the o-ring method to use the smallest diameter o-ring that will hold the case against the bolt face. Also you "MUST" grease the locking lugs to prevent wear due to the added force required to close the bolt.

Below is a Remington 700 bolt face, it holds the rear of the case and centers the case in the rear of the chamber. American SAAMI cases tend to run on the small side in base diameter and with the large diameter Enfield chamber and bolt face design the cases will lay in the bottom of the chamber.

Below is the Enfield bolt face and when the bolt closes the extractor moves to the right and away from the bolt face.

Below on the left is a Prvi Partizan case and on the right is a Greek HXP case and both were fired in the same Enfield rifle. The Prvi Partizan case has thicker rims, a larger base diameter and the base of the case is .010 thicker. (built Ford Truck Tough)

The point being below is the Greek HXP case is smaller in diameter and if you look closely at the left hand side of the case you will see a bulge. And the point where the case expanded to meet the chamber walls is at an angle, low on the left and high on the right. This HXP case laid in the bottom of the chamber and when fired the case expanded more on one side and warped.

Bottom line the rubber o-ring fire forming method prevents the case from stretching when fired, "AND" centers the case in the rear of the chamber when the o-ring is compressed. And a warped .303 British case is not worth reloading if you want accurate ammunition.