So I'm in the process of loading up a batch, and i notice the press is unusually easy to work while seating the bullet. As in-I let go of the handle and the weight of it finishes the stroke for me. measuring the inside diameter and I'm getting about 2-2.5 thou of tension which is fine. I do anneal, and I am not overheating my brass. I am also using a collet die. The only thing i can think of is that annealing is unnecessary and quite possibly counter productive if using a collet die due to the fact that the brass isn't working enough to re-harden the softened brass??? Can anyone shed light on the issue? Should I stop annealing altogether? start anneal every 2nd loading? or is this totally an unrelated issue? Any input would be appreciated.
annealing and neck tension??
- Thread starter stvnbrg
- Start date
The question is, if I grab onto the bullet and push with some force, I can push the bullet further in. I have honestly never tried to do this before I noticed it easy to cycle the press. Is it normal to be able to push them in? Again its not super easy to do, but they certainly aren't welded in the neck either
It's a collet die. I can't adjust it. Reading the little booklet, it says flat out that the neck with grip the bullet lightly. Maybe I'm freaking out over nothing....?
You can adjust neck tension using a collet die. I size the neck just to provide enough tension to hold the bullet, I follow the set up instruction however i set up be first sizing the neck until it just starts to grip the bullet but you can just pull it in and out with the neck tension then I turn down the die slowly until the bullet can't be forced in by the pressure of my hand, at that point I give it a slight 0.25" of a turn more to give it just enough bite so that my bullet doesn't come popping out if the case when the bullet gets jammed into the lands and I need to extract a round during mid string in competition.
Are you using the Lee die?
Using Lee collet dies I've adjusted neck tension for using cast bullets. Just turn a piece of mild steel (2-3" long) to whatever dimension you desire, in my case (because of using cast) I went about .001 - .002" larger so I wouldn't deform the slug. If you want a slightly tighter grip you could just polish the existing mandrel and mic it so you only take off perhaps .0005" or .001". If you have someone turn a piece of steel, just use a punch to deform the top so it won't pull through he die. Wonderful dies for cast, I think Jerry @ Mystic Prec uses Lee Collets for some very good shooting.
Yes I do. I use to use a bushing die until I noticed brass flowing towards the shoulder one my cases.
You can definately adjust neck tension with the lee collet die. I set the die up at the end of the press stroke, using one peice of brass and measuring the neck diameter as I turn the die down in small increments. When there is no change in diameter between adjustment, then its set to size that particlar set of brass.
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There are two reasons for annealing. One is to soften the brass to make it more ductile. Two is to harden it slightly to hold onto the bullet better. Sometimes you will notice brand new surplus brass with lovely annealing colors on the shoulder and neck. This is done for ammo that is intended for full auto or semi auto rifles. They do this to slightly harden the brass to increase the tension when t grips the bullet to stop the bullets from coming loose and slipping back in the cases while in the magazine.
As far as annealing every time, that is up to you. I went through a plant in Brazil that remanufactures rail car loads of cases for reloading on a daily basis. That was in 1976. They didn't bother with sorting cases or anything that would slow the process down until after everything was washed in a sudsy mild acid solution in a rolling hopper very similar to those found on concrete trucks. Then they sorted everything by cartridge design into different bins and sorted out the scrap while doing it. Then the cartridges were fed onto a steel mesh belt and fed onto a large rotating steel mesh drum about 7 meters long with natural gas flame heating the brass uniformly to the desired temperatures. They weren't the least bit worried about limiting this treatment to the shoulder/neck area. They were trying to make the used cases as close to original specs as possible. After coming out of the heating drum they dropped into a water/soap bath to finish the softening process. There was another steel mesh belt carrying the cases out of the quench tank and dumped it all into bins where actual people picked it up by hand to inspect for cracks in the case wall and necks, they did this by placing them base down on conveyors which rotated the cases upright under bright light. You would be surprised at how good those people were at detecting flaws. While they were going down this line toward the reloading machines they rotated the necks/shoulders through NG flames and allowed them to air cool to harden them for increased neck tension once the bullets were inserted. The reloading machine finished it all off from there including decapping and cleaning the primer pockets, recapping, dropping powder charge and inserting the bullets. There was a fellow that would take a couple of cartridges off for testing from each batch at different intervals. The time would be written on them and they would go into a tray for firing in one of their issued rifles later. If all was well they would pass the lot. They also checked some in pressure rifles.
Some of that brass had come back for reloading many times. It was also all Berdan primed. The Berdan priming didn't slow anything down at all. Their machine produced 250 reloads per minute when all was set up and running well.
Re annealing every time isn't necessary but it won't hurt anything. For standard cartridges I seldom anneal until at least after the fifth reloading or if the press feels stiff. Your brass/time, your call.
As far as annealing every time, that is up to you. I went through a plant in Brazil that remanufactures rail car loads of cases for reloading on a daily basis. That was in 1976. They didn't bother with sorting cases or anything that would slow the process down until after everything was washed in a sudsy mild acid solution in a rolling hopper very similar to those found on concrete trucks. Then they sorted everything by cartridge design into different bins and sorted out the scrap while doing it. Then the cartridges were fed onto a steel mesh belt and fed onto a large rotating steel mesh drum about 7 meters long with natural gas flame heating the brass uniformly to the desired temperatures. They weren't the least bit worried about limiting this treatment to the shoulder/neck area. They were trying to make the used cases as close to original specs as possible. After coming out of the heating drum they dropped into a water/soap bath to finish the softening process. There was another steel mesh belt carrying the cases out of the quench tank and dumped it all into bins where actual people picked it up by hand to inspect for cracks in the case wall and necks, they did this by placing them base down on conveyors which rotated the cases upright under bright light. You would be surprised at how good those people were at detecting flaws. While they were going down this line toward the reloading machines they rotated the necks/shoulders through NG flames and allowed them to air cool to harden them for increased neck tension once the bullets were inserted. The reloading machine finished it all off from there including decapping and cleaning the primer pockets, recapping, dropping powder charge and inserting the bullets. There was a fellow that would take a couple of cartridges off for testing from each batch at different intervals. The time would be written on them and they would go into a tray for firing in one of their issued rifles later. If all was well they would pass the lot. They also checked some in pressure rifles.
Some of that brass had come back for reloading many times. It was also all Berdan primed. The Berdan priming didn't slow anything down at all. Their machine produced 250 reloads per minute when all was set up and running well.
Re annealing every time isn't necessary but it won't hurt anything. For standard cartridges I seldom anneal until at least after the fifth reloading or if the press feels stiff. Your brass/time, your call.
Lee will make smaller diameter mandrels at your request so you can increase neck tension. Also you can sand/polish the mandrel yourself to reduce its diameter.
I have five Lee collet dies and do not use them anymore and one of the reasons is the problem you are having. I now use Forster full length dies with the high mounted expander. Do not get me wrong because many reloaders love their Lee collet dies , BUT I'm not one of them. I do not anneal my cases and brass spring back and unequal neck tension was one of the problems I had and not liking the cheaply made Lee collet die.
Bottom line if you are not a competitive shooter you do not need to anneal your cases after every firing. The only people who anneal after each firing are excessive compulsive benchrest shooters.
Annealing makes the brass softer and the reason the military brass annealing is more pronounced is because the military uses higher grade brass that is harder. Meaning these military cases are annealed to ensure the shoulder and neck are "softer" to ensure the case seals the pressure in the chamber.
Below the once fired American military Lake City 5.56 cases have been tumbled and the annealing color has been completely removed from the "surface" of the brass.
The reason this annealing is less pronounced on commercial cases is because they are tumbled and polished before being loaded at the factory.
And annealing does not make the brass harder, it makes it softer to ensure the case seals the high pressure gas inside the chamber.
For those of you who worry about drying your brass in the oven, it has to be near 600 degrees before the brass even starts to become softer.
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