CRF vs Push Feed
- Thread starter TrevorMack
- Start date
Whn it comes to government expenditure, I never even try to compare against civilian price.... We all hear the true horror stories of how manufacturers jack up the price when the govornment gets involved.... $150 hammers and such.....
Will be very interesting to see what price tikka offers the ranger rifle at to civilians.....
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
This is what happens when bureaucrats are tasked with appropriations. The push feed requirement was most likely because push feed was the system that existed on the Lee Enfield, and it was possibly thought that dropping a round on top of the follower and slamming the bolt closed could damage a CRF extractor, or at the very least result in a failure to feed, when neither need be the case. However, a damaged CRF extractor can be exchanged by the shooter, whereas the push feed extractor that is damaged by an overloaded cartridge, or by some other mishap, requires the services of an armorer.
Given the cost of the Canadian Ranger Rifle program, its too bad that a new action couldn't have been designed, one which would adapt to left of right hand use, simply by reversing the position of the bolt handle and reversing the claw extractor on a CRF action, to the opposite side of the bolt, and reversing the position, or exchanging, the bolt head, if a push feed. It would have been better IMHO, if the bolt had been designed to be stripped without tools, something possible with a 98 Mauser, but not a Lee Enfield.
A short butt stock with a spacer system would have resolved the stock length problem. Consider the possibility - a 4 foot tall girl Ranger is issued a rifle of appropriate dimensions, she retires, and her rifle is subsequently passed on to her 6'6" 245 pound knuckle dragging replacement. Wanna bet he doesn't shoot up to his rifle. This is obviously not a CRF/push feed issue, but is typical of a bureaucratic oversight.
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The 4 grand isn't just for the rifle. From wiki:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Rangers
The new rifle features a detachable 10-round box magazine, iron sights calibrated from 100–600 meters, a laminated wooden stock, stainless steel construction with extra corrosion resistant coatings, enlarged trigger guards and bolt handles, so they can be used by rangers, without requiring them to remove their gloves. The barrel, bolt and receiver will be made by Colt Canada under licence from SAKO. In addition to the rifle, the the accessories package will include a custom-molded Pelican hard transport case, plus a soft transport case (outfitted with sling, extra magazines, a lock and cleaning kit). Both hard case and soft case and rifle butt stock feature the Canadian Ranger Crest.
Associate Minister of National Defence Julian Fantino announced that the DND planned to buy 6,820 rifles.Including development costs, spare parts, two million rounds of ammunition, the rifles are expected to cost $28 million.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Rangers
The new rifle features a detachable 10-round box magazine, iron sights calibrated from 100–600 meters, a laminated wooden stock, stainless steel construction with extra corrosion resistant coatings, enlarged trigger guards and bolt handles, so they can be used by rangers, without requiring them to remove their gloves. The barrel, bolt and receiver will be made by Colt Canada under licence from SAKO. In addition to the rifle, the the accessories package will include a custom-molded Pelican hard transport case, plus a soft transport case (outfitted with sling, extra magazines, a lock and cleaning kit). Both hard case and soft case and rifle butt stock feature the Canadian Ranger Crest.
Associate Minister of National Defence Julian Fantino announced that the DND planned to buy 6,820 rifles.Including development costs, spare parts, two million rounds of ammunition, the rifles are expected to cost $28 million.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
With our dollar being down as it is, we could've refurbished a huge pile of M44 Mosin Nagants for the Rangers and they'd have a reliable rifle that can be silently be cocked & de-cocked on a loaded chamber like the LE.
View attachment 45783
What a fun country we live in. Oy Vey!
View attachment 45784
View attachment 45783
What a fun country we live in. Oy Vey!
View attachment 45784
With our dollar being down as it is, we could've refurbished a huge pile of M44 Mosin Nagants for the Rangers and they'd have a reliable rifle that can be silently be cocked & de-cocked on a loaded chamber like the LE.
View attachment 45783
What a fun country we live in. Oy Vey!
View attachment 45784
Rangers using Mosin's ... that's a good one.
Put a rabbi's face on that bill and you would be even more on point. Oy Vey! indeed.
Would you pay 4 grand for a Tikka CTR with a pelican case, soft case, sling, cleaning kit a couple, of goodies and 293 rounds of ammo?
they are being made in Canada by colt Canada. With the way people go bonkers over Colt Canada rifles on this forum I am sure there will be people lined up to buy.
The added cost in this licensing/production agreement is likely why the ridiculous price. I'm happy with a stock Tikka CTR myself so count me out
Just to introduce a little science to the discussion. Can someone give any real statistics for failures etc. for each action type.
Assuming the actions are suitably accurate the only issue is reliability in real world use. How many FTF per 1000 rounds, how many FTE per thousand etc etc. I would like to see the numbers before I would say one or other is best. In my mind I doubt it makes any difference in a well made rifle. But I do note that the inexpensive rifles are almost all push feed so if indeed there is a difference the quality of firearm also needs to be factored in.
Assuming the actions are suitably accurate the only issue is reliability in real world use. How many FTF per 1000 rounds, how many FTE per thousand etc etc. I would like to see the numbers before I would say one or other is best. In my mind I doubt it makes any difference in a well made rifle. But I do note that the inexpensive rifles are almost all push feed so if indeed there is a difference the quality of firearm also needs to be factored in.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
No statistics are available because a rifle that fails to feed or a fails to eject is broken, and in need of repair, regardless of the style of extractor. A rifle that isn't broken works fine.
there is one other factor/variable that can cause FTF, FTE and that is user error. I'm sure we have all seen "that guy" at the range who just has no clue and is really his own worst enemy.
If user error is not to blame, then I agree that the firearm is in need of repair because FTF and FTE is unacceptable even once.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Now that's true, and the action has to be cycled like you mean it, not babied like you're scared its going to break.
