Guys....as i walk into this new world (to me) Im reading and researching everything i can get my hands on. Have the Lyman manual and the ABCs of Reloading. Everything i read tells me to use extreme caution in ensuring that i never go above or below recommended powder charges. Got it....however different manuals often show different minimums. Obvious question is...how can it be soooo critical if there are no absolutes or concurrence As to maximum or minimums.?? One again...thanks.
A bit confused
- Thread starter tlsdad
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- gormley ontario
Do the different manuals use different powder and projectile weights
You will find drastically different min and max loads because there are so many variables that effect pressure that could be different between the two test procedures/labs used to develop the data. A published max load could produce dangerous pressures above max in certain combinations of firearm/case/primer/powder lot number/bullet/throat/barrel/ambient pressure/temperature/humidity/etc.
I have a Rem 700 in .308 that seems to have a very tight chamber. Some FL sized brass doesn't even fit sometimes. It gets some pressure signs (stiff bolt lift, cases stuck in chamber) below many published max loads. The tighter chamber reduces the volume for the gas to expand into which increases pressure.
I also have other rifles (mostly milsurps) that have such loose chambers, throats, and bores that a max load doesn't produce even close to max pressure velocities for a given barrel length.
Any starting load is usually safe for any normal commercial or milsurp rifle. Some weird things can happen with minimum or below-minimum spec match rifles but that's likely not something you'll get into if you're just starting reloading.
Personally, I always check 2-3 sources to get load ranges for the same cartridge and bullet weight and construction (I don't care what brand of bullet it is). I then make a judgement call from past experience as to where I will start. Until you build up this experience, it may be better to go with the lowest starting load. Not just for safety but this way you can also get experience loading across a wider range of pressures to see what happens at lower, intermediate, and higher pressures.
At the end of the day load manuals and published data is written as much (if not more) by lawyers than by ballistic engineers. Most experienced reloaders know where to fudge certain things and where to be very careful. This experienced is garnered from developing many loads with many varied components for many different cartridges in many different firearms.
I have a Rem 700 in .308 that seems to have a very tight chamber. Some FL sized brass doesn't even fit sometimes. It gets some pressure signs (stiff bolt lift, cases stuck in chamber) below many published max loads. The tighter chamber reduces the volume for the gas to expand into which increases pressure.
I also have other rifles (mostly milsurps) that have such loose chambers, throats, and bores that a max load doesn't produce even close to max pressure velocities for a given barrel length.
Any starting load is usually safe for any normal commercial or milsurp rifle. Some weird things can happen with minimum or below-minimum spec match rifles but that's likely not something you'll get into if you're just starting reloading.
Personally, I always check 2-3 sources to get load ranges for the same cartridge and bullet weight and construction (I don't care what brand of bullet it is). I then make a judgement call from past experience as to where I will start. Until you build up this experience, it may be better to go with the lowest starting load. Not just for safety but this way you can also get experience loading across a wider range of pressures to see what happens at lower, intermediate, and higher pressures.
At the end of the day load manuals and published data is written as much (if not more) by lawyers than by ballistic engineers. Most experienced reloaders know where to fudge certain things and where to be very careful. This experienced is garnered from developing many loads with many varied components for many different cartridges in many different firearms.
If you are confused now, just wait until you discover that the velocity listed in the manual can vary by 200fps or more from the velocity that the load produces in your rifle. And you may discover that the so called "most accurate load" in the manual, may not shoot well in your rifle. There are far to many variables in reloading to put absolute trust in a single source of load data. Chamber and barrel dimensions vary, as do lots of components , especially powder, case volumes vary from manufacturer to manufacturer, and even from lot to lot of the same manufacturer. As a result, not all loads listed in a manual may even be safe in your firearm, and in some cases, you could safely exceed the maximum published load.
Fudge factor.
The people who write reloading manuals can't account for all the variables , all they can do is give you safe data for the components
they currently have.
Chambers, throats,barrels,brass powder, primers and bullet construction all have an effect on pressure.
The people who write reloading manuals can't account for all the variables , all they can do is give you safe data for the components
they currently have.
Chambers, throats,barrels,brass powder, primers and bullet construction all have an effect on pressure.
It may have to do with who made the cartridge, primer, the powder type. Ball, flake, stick etc may be suitable for the same load. Each may have a different grain amount based on burn characteristics. The safety advice is good from the authors so if it were me I would find a grain that stays within the two reference manuals and use caution for hotter loads.
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I can certainly appreciate that you are confused!
As you state, every manual will give different loads for a given calibre. Virtually every one who replies to you here, will give a different answer. Add to that the vast amount of information and misinformation given on many other gun blogs and such social media as Facebook and you have a whole generation, or three, of hand loaders very much confused.
You have one each of the two very best manuals produced. Try clearing your mind of what you have read. Take one of your manuals, start reading it like it is the first thing you have read on hand loading.
When you get to the calibre of the rifle you are going to reload, they will have several powders listed that will all make s suitable cartridge. Choose a powder they show that will give the highest, or near highest velocity, with the bullet weights you will be using and get that powder.
Use any brand of brass cases that you have and the type of primer the manual recommends, either large rifle or large rifle magnum, unless you are loading for small rifle primers.
carefully load the load the manual shows for starting loads, with the bullet weights you are using.
Load just a few, maybe ten, of the first loading of starting loads and shoot them.
Go from there, using the information from the one manual you chose.
Shoot away.
As you state, every manual will give different loads for a given calibre. Virtually every one who replies to you here, will give a different answer. Add to that the vast amount of information and misinformation given on many other gun blogs and such social media as Facebook and you have a whole generation, or three, of hand loaders very much confused.
You have one each of the two very best manuals produced. Try clearing your mind of what you have read. Take one of your manuals, start reading it like it is the first thing you have read on hand loading.
When you get to the calibre of the rifle you are going to reload, they will have several powders listed that will all make s suitable cartridge. Choose a powder they show that will give the highest, or near highest velocity, with the bullet weights you will be using and get that powder.
Use any brand of brass cases that you have and the type of primer the manual recommends, either large rifle or large rifle magnum, unless you are loading for small rifle primers.
carefully load the load the manual shows for starting loads, with the bullet weights you are using.
Load just a few, maybe ten, of the first loading of starting loads and shoot them.
Go from there, using the information from the one manual you chose.
Shoot away.
OK, and just to carry on a bit. I am presuming you have a bolt action rifle.
Seat the bullets so they work through the magazine and chamber with the bolt handle full down. The OAL they give in the book may work for your rifle. If it does, fine.
If the bolt won't close with at the length they give, seat it deeper by small increments until it does.
The loads at min. powder charge will almost surely work fine in your rifle, with no sign, whatsoever, of too much pressure. I'm going to jump ahead a bit here.
The best piece of equipment you can possibly have is a chronograph. The manual will show a velocity for each load, which will nearly always be higher than the velocity you obtained. But the point is, the manual will give velocities that are safe with that bullet and that powder charge. So, if you have a chronograph you simply keep adding powder until either you reach the velocity they show as "maximum," or your bolt gets sticky on opening, meaning the handle will not raise without some added pressure on it. If this happens you will reduce the powder, maybe a grain, and if it is OK, that will be your load.
However, there is about a 99% chance that using your chronograph, you can raise the velocity to what the manual states is maximum and there will be no extra pressure on the bolt handle to raise it.
You don't say if you have your equipment, or not. But for a scale, get a good brand beam scale. If you are even remotely thinking of getting an electronic scale, don't. Get a chronograph instead! Actually, to progress to a good hand loader, a chronograph is a must.
Bruce
Yeah a Chronograph is very useful. I like to compare my loads to the velocity of the factory loads. I usually feel little need to exceed the factory velocities unless they're grossly under loaded like some 8mm Mauser cartridges are as an example. If you want to soup up your gun it's better to buy another gun that fires a larger cartridge in the same caliber instead.
