highlander
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Newfoundland
Exactly my feelings on this also.
Where Are All The 12(6)'s ???
- Thread starter Calahan
- Start date
Exactly my feelings on this also.
667 , you may have never shot a good 12-6 , the best shooter I have is a 4 inch s-w model 19, A 3 inch S-W 686 Lew Horton would shoot
a 1-1.5 in at 23yds all day.
If you want to pay junk price, you get junk.
The Rules are a bit different last few years for shops.
Most can't have proh. in stock, I had to use consign.
a 1-1.5 in at 23yds all day.
If you want to pay junk price, you get junk.
The Rules are a bit different last few years for shops.
Most can't have proh. in stock, I had to use consign.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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I think it's a muddy situation, and I can't straight out agree or disagree. I decided a couple of years ago I needed to bulk up my 12(6) collection, and have had a couple of things in mind, and have been frustrated by prices. But a big part of that is that I am expecting a killer deal, and all I can find are good deals.
First off, a lot of stuff in the category is borderline junk, it sells cheap and to some people it might be worth it (Of course, this low price crap is the only reason I managed to squeak into 12(6) as a teenager, almost by accident, so I'm not complaining.) But go compare the market value of a nice, sought after gun like a S&W model 29 in restricted vs. prohibited variants; you will see that we are still getting a deal, to the tune of about $300-400. A short Python is about $1000 dollars less than a 6" version. And in what other category can you get a brand name pistol with some historical value for $150? But that seems to be the going rate for a Browning Baby .25. And while I understand the frustration if you're trying to find a PPK for a steal, you have to admit that the $350 they usually sell for isn't a bad price for something with such cachet.
Desireable stuff is undoubtedly still worth a good price, and this is why I haven't been able to pick up the killer deals I have been hoping for. A 4" 629 is going to cost most of a thousand dollars, that's all there is to it. Most anything on offer from dealers the prices seem to be usually in left field. I attribute this to the fact that they are generally lower value pieces, and the dealer has to make an absolute certain number of dollars to make the transaction worthwhile, so the margins are high. Also, the 12(6) market by definition is populated by older people who might not be comfortable buying on the internet, so where else are they going to go if they want something?
On the other hand, if you are at the right place at the right time you can get excellent deals. To any rational person, my Ruger Bisley Single Six .32 H&R Mag is worth way more than the $200 (shipped) I paid for it off the EE. A S&W .22 revolver in excellent condition is almost certainly worth more than $295, but when I found Ellwood Epps with several prohib S&W revolvers in stock they were quite willing to part with my model 18 for that price.
My experience is auctions offer the best deals, as they have a room full of people but only a handful will have the proper license. If you can find yourself in an auction with a number of prohib guns but only a couple of licensed buyers, well then you will see .38 snubbies sell for $100 or less. But if the auctioneer has the savvy to advertise the collection and accept online bids, all of a sudden prices can go right back to normal, or higher. I'm told that widows trying to get rid of collections that belonged to dead husbands can expect to get next to nothing for them, but I've never run into it in person, so I don't know.
All in all, my impression is the selling price is a direct correlation of the seller's ability to know how to contact and market to the licensed crowd. Dealers and experienced auctioneer's are the best at it, and get the best prices. Individuals on the EE are next, auctioneers who aren't strong in the market are next, executors of estates are probably last.
First off, a lot of stuff in the category is borderline junk, it sells cheap and to some people it might be worth it (Of course, this low price crap is the only reason I managed to squeak into 12(6) as a teenager, almost by accident, so I'm not complaining.) But go compare the market value of a nice, sought after gun like a S&W model 29 in restricted vs. prohibited variants; you will see that we are still getting a deal, to the tune of about $300-400. A short Python is about $1000 dollars less than a 6" version. And in what other category can you get a brand name pistol with some historical value for $150? But that seems to be the going rate for a Browning Baby .25. And while I understand the frustration if you're trying to find a PPK for a steal, you have to admit that the $350 they usually sell for isn't a bad price for something with such cachet.
Desireable stuff is undoubtedly still worth a good price, and this is why I haven't been able to pick up the killer deals I have been hoping for. A 4" 629 is going to cost most of a thousand dollars, that's all there is to it. Most anything on offer from dealers the prices seem to be usually in left field. I attribute this to the fact that they are generally lower value pieces, and the dealer has to make an absolute certain number of dollars to make the transaction worthwhile, so the margins are high. Also, the 12(6) market by definition is populated by older people who might not be comfortable buying on the internet, so where else are they going to go if they want something?
On the other hand, if you are at the right place at the right time you can get excellent deals. To any rational person, my Ruger Bisley Single Six .32 H&R Mag is worth way more than the $200 (shipped) I paid for it off the EE. A S&W .22 revolver in excellent condition is almost certainly worth more than $295, but when I found Ellwood Epps with several prohib S&W revolvers in stock they were quite willing to part with my model 18 for that price.
My experience is auctions offer the best deals, as they have a room full of people but only a handful will have the proper license. If you can find yourself in an auction with a number of prohib guns but only a couple of licensed buyers, well then you will see .38 snubbies sell for $100 or less. But if the auctioneer has the savvy to advertise the collection and accept online bids, all of a sudden prices can go right back to normal, or higher. I'm told that widows trying to get rid of collections that belonged to dead husbands can expect to get next to nothing for them, but I've never run into it in person, so I don't know.
All in all, my impression is the selling price is a direct correlation of the seller's ability to know how to contact and market to the licensed crowd. Dealers and experienced auctioneer's are the best at it, and get the best prices. Individuals on the EE are next, auctioneers who aren't strong in the market are next, executors of estates are probably last.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Switzer Auctions in Saskatchewan or Ontario? I don't think the SK version sells guns, but I could be wrong. The Switzer in ON I attended once and it stood out as being the best buyers auction I have ever been to. I picked up a 1916 vintage Colt 1911 for $425 (commercial, refinished, but still a winner).
I was referring to guns like my Walther PP.
7.65mm is not exactly a decent round..
My S&W Airweight... A belly-gun at best.
The rag tag assortment of .22 pocket pistols... Meh, boring.
Yes... There are some good shooters. The one prohib I kept is a S&W mod. 15 with a 4" barrel.
hatman1793
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The 12(6) so-called classification system was designed to eliminate all guns under 4" because the gov't didn't like them or gun owners. So they created a two tier system whereby "some" gun owners could own 12(6) guns but most could not. So-called "Grandfathering" is a heinous, totally unfair concept creating two or more classes of gun owners. Patently & totally illegal in every other application, this divisive concept divides gun owners.
The Conservatives-in-name-only had 6 years to fix this, but lost their way even with a majority gov't. Now in the wilderness, they are licking their wounds trying to figure out why they lost so big.(see Moores law) However it should not go without mentioning that these same not-really-conservatives added thousands of prohibited weapons to the registry with CBSA's prohibited Beretta sidearm in clear violation of the detested Bill C68. So much for the concerns of voting gun owners.
Now my take on 12(6) class: it's here to stay or will get worse under Pierre Elliot Trudeau's stupider son. We are officially stuck, plus prohibited gun decisions are going back to the RCMPolice, a disaster in waiting. One more thing: the values of prohibited class handguns is creeping up again with sellers asking exorbitant prices. These are unsustainable until sellers realize that the gov't will never change this class and begin to accept that 12(6) gun prices will have to fall. There are a few exceptions but they have little effect.
The Conservatives-in-name-only had 6 years to fix this, but lost their way even with a majority gov't. Now in the wilderness, they are licking their wounds trying to figure out why they lost so big.(see Moores law) However it should not go without mentioning that these same not-really-conservatives added thousands of prohibited weapons to the registry with CBSA's prohibited Beretta sidearm in clear violation of the detested Bill C68. So much for the concerns of voting gun owners.
Now my take on 12(6) class: it's here to stay or will get worse under Pierre Elliot Trudeau's stupider son. We are officially stuck, plus prohibited gun decisions are going back to the RCMPolice, a disaster in waiting. One more thing: the values of prohibited class handguns is creeping up again with sellers asking exorbitant prices. These are unsustainable until sellers realize that the gov't will never change this class and begin to accept that 12(6) gun prices will have to fall. There are a few exceptions but they have little effect.
When the prohibited class was created, I had only one and was grandfathered more by fluke than design. I now own 13 high quality prohibs, and I suspect the same is true with a lot of other members. There are fewer of us but we own more on the good quality prohibited hand guns.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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A very good observation, you may be on to something. From 1994 to 2008 I owned one 12(6), an Iver Junkson that is so loose the cylinder can literally rotate backwards. It is certainly unsafe to fire. I now own five in the category, four of which are quite nice, and have my eyes open for several more. Do you suppose there are enough of us in this situation to drive the market?
I was looking for one in .380 but settled for the .380 Astra Constable.
I'd be satisfied with an Astra, or a Bersa, or any other decent PPK lookalike/copy. I have a Beretta 1934 in 380, but would like something more modern (and I've always liked the original PPK, not the current monstrosities with the extended barrels).
Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
seems like more and more are being bought up and exported to the states where they tend to be worth more. I know at least two individuals who make a cottage business out of doing just this. sad to seem them leave, but at least they aren't being melted down!
Yeah, too bad they're going stateside, 'cause as we all know that's a one-way trip.
Back in the day, we imagined that at some point in the future there would be a small number of legal 12(6) owners, each with hundreds of prohibs.
I'm still looking for pointers to auctions, etc. in Southern Ontario where one might find some prohibs, if anyone has any insight.
