Army Chief Wants Power to Select New Pistol

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Army Chief Wants Power to Select New Pistol

Mar 10, 2016 | by Matthew Cox


The U.S. Army's chief of staff said Thursday that if he had his way, he'd abandon the bureaucratic Modular Handgun System effort and personally select the service's next pistol.

Speaking at the Future of War Conference 2016, Gen. Mark Milley said he has asked Congress to grant service chiefs the authority to bypass the Pentagon's multi-layered and complex acquisition process on programs that do not require research and development.

"We are not exactly redesigning how to go to the moon, right?" Milley said. "This is a pistol. ... And arguably, it is the least lethal and important weapon system in the Department of Defense inventory."

The Army launched its long-awaited XM17 MHS competition in late August to replace its Cold War era M9 9mm pistol. One of the major goals of the MHS effort is to adopt a pistol chambered for a more potent round than the current 9mm. The U.S. military replaced the .45 caliber 1911 pistol with the M9 in 1985 and began using the 9mm NATO round at that time.

Gunmakers had until Feb. 12 to submit proposals to the Army.

Milley used the program as an example of the bureaucratic acquisition system that often makes it overly complicated to field equipment to soldiers in a timely manner.

"We are trying to figure out a way to speed up the acquisition system," Milley said. "Some of these systems take multiple years, some of them decades to develop."

As the service chief, Milley said he should be able to say "here is your purpose; here is the end-state I want to achieve ... if you succeed, you are promoted and I give you a medal. If you fail, you are fired. You hold people accountable.

"I'm saying let me and then hold me accountable," he added. "Let me figure out what type of pistol we need and let me go buy it without having to go through nine years of incredibly scrutiny."

The program has a "367-page requirement document. Why?" Milley asked. "Well, a lawyer says this and a lawyer says that and you have to go through this process and that process and you have to have oversight from this that and the other."

Milley also criticized the lengthy testing process for MHS that's slated to cost $17 million.

"The testing -- I got a briefing the other day -- the testing for this pistol is two years," Milley said. "Two years to test technology that we know exists. You give me $17 million on the credit card, I'll call Cabelas tonight, and I'll outfit every soldier, sailor, airman, and Marine with a pistol and I'll get a discount on it for bulk buys."

That calculation appears off, though, since the handguns under consideration retail between $400 and $700 apiece and the military may purchase nearly a half million firearms as part of the program.

Current plans call for the Army to purchase more than 280,000 full-size handguns and 7,000 compact versions, officials maintain. The other military services participating in the MHS program may order an additional 212,000 systems above the Army quantity.

MHS is set to cost at least $350 million and potentially millions more if it results in the selection of a more potent pistol caliber, sources said.

The request for proposal calls on gun makers to submit packages that include full-size and compact versions of their handgun as well as hundreds of thousands of rounds for testing.

In a break from tradition, the Army is also requiring competing firms to prove that they are capable of delivering millions of rounds of pistol ammunition per month in addition to delivering thousands of new handguns per month, according to the request.

The competition will also evaluate expanding or fragmenting ammunition, such as hollow-point bullets, that have been used by law enforcement agencies for years. The Army's draft solicitation cited a new Defense Department policy that allows for the use of "special purpose ammunition."

"We are not figuring out the next lunar landing," Milley said. "This is a pistol.

"There is a certain degree of common sense to this stuff and that is what I am talking about. ... Empower the service chiefs with the capability to go out and do certain things. Speed the process up."

-- Matthew Cox can be reached at matthew.cox@military.com.
 
the only problem with his way of doing things are rifles like the Ross rifle. When people have a stake in things they end up picking the weapons the troops use, and they die for it. If The Army Chief picked the pistol himself I can guarantee he would be going on a whole lot of free vacations and will have a job at a firearms manufacturer when he retires.
 
M9A3. It uses the same magazine as the M9A1, is easily fitted to be a G version (decocker only) and will fir in the same holsters and the M9A1. Interchangable barrels, guid rods and springs but with the added benefit of the new grip and upgraded internals. Fires reliable and comes with a threaded barrel.
 
M9A3. It uses the same magazine as the M9A1, is easily fitted to be a G version (decocker only) and will fir in the same holsters and the M9A1. Interchangable barrels, guid rods and springs but with the added benefit of the new grip and upgraded internals. Fires reliable and comes with a threaded barrel.

+ 1
 
The article states that they want a more powerful round then the 9mm.

Looks like they want the 45 back.

Not quite, Highlander... it says "a more potent round than the current 9mm."... which is NATO FMJ ball ammo. They won't want to go back to a 7-rounds pistol capacity I suspect, but they did indicate last year that they were willing to consider going with modern hollow point bullets for better lethality than FMJ.
 
The article states that they want a more powerful round then the 9mm.

Looks like they want the 45 back.

Fine.

G22/G23

I don't see them going away from 9mm anytime soon. Economies and NATO standard being what they are.

That SAID, a couple billion rounds of 9mm surplus hitting the market would be a beautiful thing...

Maybe get Glock to fill the missing slot in their lineup with a compact .45 where the 19 and 23 sit today.

Make it a G21/G2x...
 
The article states that they want a more powerful round then the 9mm.

Looks like they want the 45 back.

They departed from the .45 for very good reasons, among them magazine capacity for those with smaller hands. I suspect they are looking hard at .40 S&W or perhaps even 10mm. They'll still want higher mag capacities so case diameter will be an issue.
 
Instead of larger round why not faster round and a longer slide? Better propellant for the 9mm fired from a 5" barrel will have a high velocity. Weight breaks but speed penatrates. (At least thats what I tell me wife lmao)
 
They departed from the .45 for very good reasons, among them magazine capacity for those with smaller hands. I suspect they are looking hard at .40 S&W or perhaps even 10mm. They'll still want higher mag capacities so case diameter will be an issue.

Because the Beretta 92 is such a slender reed in the hand compared to the 1911.
 
Pretty sure fmj is the only bullet allowed by Geneva Convention. Could be wrong......

It's the Hague Convention you're thinking of and I believe that the U.S. never signed onto that agreement. They have followed it for the most part but they aren't obligated to.
 
Don't see the military adopting a plastic pistole… these types of pistoles work fine for LEO and the public, but not for military duty.
All metal side arm weapon system is the way to go e.g., Beretta, SIG etc
 
Don't see the military adopting a plastic pistole… these types of pistoles work fine for LEO and the public, but not for military duty.
All metal side arm weapon system is the way to go e.g., Beretta, SIG etc

Errrrr...really...? Not tryin' to be a dink - I actually prefer metal guns too - but much as I despise Glocks...they are probably just the ticket for the squaddies. I would think the Glock's legendary durability would put them right up the military's alley.

But nobody heard me say that! I hate Glocks myself!!!!
 
They departed from the .45 for very good reasons, among them magazine capacity for those with smaller hands. I suspect they are looking hard at .40 S&W or perhaps even 10mm. They'll still want higher mag capacities so case diameter will be an issue.

There were a number of reasons the US eventually went with the 9mm.

First off, the 1911's were old (some dating to the first world war) and well worn out; so they were looking at a full replacement; all new guns.

Then the issue of NATO standardization reared it's ugly head. While most NATO countries were trying to standardize firearms and ammo, the US had always gone with it's own gear, so someone decided that the new pistol should be 9mm to comply with this objective.

While some soldiers did complain about mag capacity and grip size, it wasn't considered all that big an issue; after all, the gun had been in military service for 80 years. And as one general stated, he would sooner have 8 rounds that would put an enemy down then 15 rounds that might put an enemy down. This is especially so if the military is still sticking with ball ammo.

Also, it should be noted that while the military in general did switch over to the 9mm; some specialized branches decided to stay with the 45; and some more have gone back to the 45 since.

Like you said the 40 S&W looks good; the 10mm, I think, is probably out; mainly because almost no other agencies, etc. use it.

Again, my bet is still on the 45; it served the military well for 80 years, and that's a record that speaks for itself.

Now, what make/model firearm they are going to pick - that's the million dollar question.
 
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