I like the smaller sized 20 gauge semi autos, because they fit small shooters better, they are reasonably light, and the semi auto action reduce the felt recoil to significantly less than a pump action or single shot. If you don't feel like spending the extra money on a semi auto sized to fit a smaller shooter, then that is your business, but if I am going to start out a new shotgun shooter, I will spend more to give them the best chance of success. I they get beat up trying to use a gun that doesn't fit, or that produces more recoil than they are comfortable with, it can ruin their enthusiasm for shooting a shotgun for a long time.
Shotgun for the kids?
- Thread starter rocklobster
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You are set on the 20 gauge from what you said. I would propose you get a tidy little 410 as a transition gun. Get a pump if that is what they will end up using and they can familiarize themselves. I guess the ammo price is a major negative in that decision. Just a thought, as recoil is an issue.
rocklobster
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Yes that .410 idea is a good suggestion, I had a little .410 uplander SXS but I sold it to fund something else, that was a tidy little shotgun... But yeah the cost of .410 sucks
rocklobster
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Right on nice pic there!
The 410 is a terrible way to get a new shooter into wingshooting. Yes the recoil is light, but the 410 is only really effective on flying game in the hands of an accomplished shooter. It is very frusrtating for most new shooters to try and hit flying targets with a 410.
I prefer that new shotgun shooters avoid trying to aim a shotgun at moving targets using the bead, it teaches them to concentrate on the bead rather than on the target, which is a good recipe for missing.
Maritime Storm
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To second Stubblejumper here, a .410 is really an experts gun, not a beginners gun. Ideally, not counting ammo cost into the equation here, the 28ga is about as small as one should get for a new person starting out. It has the best comprise between payload and weight/recoil, patterns far better than a .410 as a result a new person starting out is more apt to hit clay targets with it and continue shooting.
When my daughter was 8, I started her with a single shot hands rifle pardner in .410. I'd cut a whole bunch out of the stock so it fit. Unfortunately I was experimenting with red dots at the time and my daughter was adamant she "needed" one too, and who was I to argue so I set her gun up with one too.
That first year she shot a lot of balloons, static clays hanging off rebar posts, and old flower pots. It was a riot.
The following year I hooked her up with a Chiappa double badger to try - again cut down so it had an 11 inch LOP. We'd been hunting squirrels with her .22, but after her first hunting outing with the Chiappa she issued the edict that we would only hunt with the shotgun from now on because "it is so much more deadly Daddy!". The gun was quite a bit lighter than her H&R, and the recoil was almost too much for her to handle.
She only ever shot the bottom .410 barrel, and I really wish Chiappa would have made it a double .410. The other crappy part was the badger's ghost ring sights, which were just too frustrating for her to use to hit a flying clay.
To be continued....
...so her next gun was an IGA .410 coachman, but that too was pretty frustrating in the wingshooting department. We only had that gun a couple months when I got her to try an 870 Compact Junior 20 gauge. The gun was set in it's shortest configuration, I'd machined a big brass weight to go in the stock, and we bought a flat of winchester featherlight ultra-low-recoil #8 target loads. It was an instant success, and she was breaking clays on her first outing:
She can make about 70 clays on the clay range before she's tired, and it's not the recoil that gets her but the weight of the gun as her arms get tired. She's 10 years old now, weights a whooping 75 lbs soaking wet, and IMHO handles the recoil like a champ. We go squirrel hunting quit a bit, and her level of success is high enough that I keep getting asked if we can go to make another episode for her prospective hunting and cooking show:
These have been the best years of my life, and I smile a lot thinking that the OP might be about to experience some of the awesome things I have with my kids over the past few years.
Cheers,
Brobee
She can make about 70 clays on the clay range before she's tired, and it's not the recoil that gets her but the weight of the gun as her arms get tired. She's 10 years old now, weights a whooping 75 lbs soaking wet, and IMHO handles the recoil like a champ. We go squirrel hunting quit a bit, and her level of success is high enough that I keep getting asked if we can go to make another episode for her prospective hunting and cooking show:
These have been the best years of my life, and I smile a lot thinking that the OP might be about to experience some of the awesome things I have with my kids over the past few years.
Cheers,
Brobee
ps: I looked hard at the browning citori micro midas as well as the cynergy micro midas. I've bought a cynergy micro midas for her to try when she gets older, however it is WAY too big for her now and I'm too chicken to cut down the stock on a $1700 gun. Suspect it will be another 2 years or so before she's big enough...
blasted_saber
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My wife has an 870 Compact Junior that we'll be using to teach our daughter to wingshoot with. The 410 is far too frustrating to wingshoot with.
I have seen several youngsters get frustrated to the point of being ready to give up when trying to shoot clays with a 410. The low recoil is very attractive, but if they can't hit anything, they get frustrated and lose interest. Of course that isn't true for all children, as some of the really persistent ones do manage to hit enough clays with the 410 to keep trying, but for the most part, learning to shoot clays with a 410 usually isn't overly successful. Good on you for trying the 20 gauge, and not letting her lose interest.
One other aspect I've found important is to make it easy enough for the to find success...ie: starting out with big balloons at 10 yards. I've taken this same approach with thrown clays by doing a deal with the course owner that I'll bring my kids during low turnout times and we'll ignore the shooting stands, moving out into the course a bit to set ourselves up so the clay is in as-easy-as-possible position. My daughter found good success doing this and we're gradually moving back towards the stands (we're about half way there). She can totally handle outgoers and incomers, and we've just started on the concept of crossers by slowly moving laterally away from the position where she can confidently hit.
I think the key here is to do everything you can to find some semblance of broken clay accomplishment, and then take baby steps from there as you SLOWLY ratchet up the difficulty.
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Your approach is sound, youngsters need motivation, and success usually provides that motivation. I like to start new shooters off at station 7 on a skeet field and let them shoot only the low target until they are breaking a good percentage of targets. Then I like to move to station 1 for a while. Once they get comfortable, I have them shoot the entire field as singles. It seems that the more targets they break, the more that they want to shoot. Participation is fine, but most youngsters get more enjoyment if they are enjoying at least some success.
rocklobster
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Brobee, thanks for posting I have watched the shake and bake squirrel vid with my eldest daughter to get her excited, she was looking forward to trying to shoot soon, and since she was really young she has accompanied me hunting.
Thanks for the encouraging videos and words, you seem to be raising your girls right with an understanding of where her food comes from and outdoor experiences. Good on you!
Thanks for the encouraging videos and words, you seem to be raising your girls right with an understanding of where her food comes from and outdoor experiences. Good on you!
I bought a Remington 11-87 Youth model in 20 GA for my kids. It compact, light and great for all kinds of hunting including duck hunting. Loaded with 3'' #2, it's a screamer with velocities 1500 FPS+. The only thing, is safety because it's a semi-auto. I love this gun and thinking of buying one for myself as it make the perfect gun for rabbit and partridge and would be the same price as getting a short barrel for my Benelli M1!!
