Our Vz58 Pistol RCMP Report

In general , the RCMP is anti-gun.....when doing classification of newly imported firearms , they try to find a reason " NOT " to let them into Canada , not for a reason to let them in......if the RCMP had their way , there would be no private firearm ownership in Canada....That is why the CPC is pushing Bill C-42 through , so as to lessen the RCMPs control in classification of firearms....
 
TV-PressPass said:
Remember that this was submitted well before reclassification of the Cz's and all the other messiness. It seemed like a sure thing to us! CSA makes a Vz58 pistol, why not bring one in?!
Click to expand...

I didn't realize they were making them already independant of your effort.
Still ,I'm pretty sure the RCMP does not like the good people of Canada having even a third of the magazine capacity that they do..... I don't know why they fear us but they do! Maybe it stems from a culture of mistrust within the RCMP but the fact is they've gone rougue when it comes to their interpretation of the firearms act.

Two thirds of the politicians support them and most of the media as well.
 
fenceline said:
The disagreement comes from what the receiver started as. It started as a rifle receiver, and was modified (either in czech or the US, doesn't matter which) into a handgun.

Thus, any and all magazines are designed initially as rifles mags. For your to get your pistol mags through, you'll need to get a purpose built handgun receiver and go from there. Not convert a intended rifle receiver into a handgun "configuration.

Interestingly enough, a new receiver in the form of the 958 is being made by wolverine and is going through classification. So new 58 style receivers are in the works.

Make a handgun receiver right from forging, and then you'll have what you need.

Converting a rifle receiver vs forging a handgun receiver is the key issue. XCR and AR receivers for example are forged as "pistol" roll marked from the factory. They are designed, from the preforging process as pistol receivers. There in lay the difference in the lab's eyes.

Until then, they are all considered rifle mags designed for rifle receivers.
Click to expand...

What is a "rifle receiver" as opposed to a "handgun receiver"??
This didn't start life as either of those. It started life as a receiver, or more specifically a piece of shaped metal with holes drilled into it.

I can't stand all this made-up nonsense. It's like debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
 
This is infuriating. This seems like an arbitrary ruling considering it was designed as a pistol, not a rifle, the same as an XCR or AR. Why the hell is this ruling final? There should be an avenue to allow us to challenge this decision that won't cost tens of thousands of dollars. And what the hell is pistol-rifle, anyway? Is that an official classification, or are they making law up again like they did with "dual-use" magazines???

AaAaarg!!!!

torches-and-pitchforks.jpg
 
Looks like a lot of people missed this announcement back in September eh? Yes. It's irritating. We're hoping it changes, but we're not expecting much.
 
Zahal.org said:
Looks like a lot of people missed this announcement back in September eh? Yes. It's irritating. We're hoping it changes, but we're not expecting much.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's news to me. Crap like this is why I live in a constant state of pessimism. The lesson here is: hope leads to disappointment.
 
Hello.
About 10 rds mags...
How about getting rid of pistol mag stamping,pinning them to 5 rds. capacity so those can legally shipped to Canada.

Regards
Zygy
 
How about an appeal to take it in front of a judge. Isnt' that how the judgement on the CZ858 + Swiss arm was reversed?
That we can always appeal any newly brought firearm verdict. Was reading a thread about this last night.
The person who was vastly responsible is on this forum. The name escapes me right now.
It would give us an extra fighting chance perhaps....no?
 
katazone said:
How about an appeal to take it in front of a judge. Isnt' that how the judgement on the CZ858 + Swiss arm was reversed?
That we can always appeal any newly brought firearm verdict. Was reading a thread about this last night.
The person who was vastly responsible is on this forum. The name escapes me right now.
It would give us an extra fighting chance perhaps....no?
Click to expand...

No, the Swiss Arms and CZ858 was reversed by politicians changing the law. Nothing to do with the courts.

There is no court appeal process unless someone wants to get charged with possession of a prohibited device. And pay the associated cost of such a legal defence, risk jail time, risk a firearms prohibition and the seizure of their related firearms.

Care to volunteer?
 
fenceline said:
No, the Swiss Arms and CZ858 was reversed by politicians changing the law. Nothing to do with the courts.

There is no court appeal process unless someone wants to get charged with possession of a prohibited device. And pay the associated cost of such a legal defence, risk jail time, risk a firearms prohibition and the seizure of their related firearms.

Care to volunteer?
Click to expand...

Lol..no sir!!! ;)
Am trying to find the thread. I'm pretty certain you can appeal a first ruling.
Still searching for that thread and the name of the member that was involved.
I could have red it wrong, it was late after all.
 
katazone said:
Lol..no sir!!! ;)
Am trying to find the thread. I'm pretty certain you can appeal a first ruling.
Still searching for that thread and the name of the member that was involved.
I could have red it wrong, it was late after all.
Click to expand...

This isn't a ruling. It is a legal opinion. It is there interpretation of how the law works. It would be their argument in court should someone be found in possession of these mags and charged. There is nothing to appeal, just an opinion to argue against in court when defending oneself in court after being charged.
 
fenceline said:
This isn't a ruling. It is a legal opinion. It is there interpretation of how the law works. It would be their argument in court should someone be found in possession of these mags and charged. There is nothing to appeal, just an opinion to argue against in court when defending oneself in court after being charged.
Click to expand...

Ok found this in a thread to which Cyclone (member) commented.
I pulled an extract and also the entire link.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding what is written but I though that it stated clearly that a decision could be appealed in front of the courts.
Screen%20Shot%202016-03-23%20at%201.13.55%20PM_zpsmibojjhl.png

Link (pages 37 + 38):
http://static.globalnews.ca/content/interactives/documents/general_news_bucket/A-2012-00068.PDF

If what Zahal says in this thread is true, that the pistol submitted is marked pistol as of the manufacturing process then the AR15 rules should be applicable to overturn this. AR15 surely didn't start as a pistol, yet a pistol was manufactured! No?
Again gentlemen I am not here to claim I am right, merely wondering if WE have a fighting chance!!! :)
 
I can stamp pistol magazine on a pmag too, but currently that doesn't make it a pistol magazine either. According to the Lab's opinion.

You are confusing the law, with the RCMP opinion. There rules for the AR15 and the vz58 are the same. The RCMP has essentially said that the AR15 pistol receivers were purpose made as pistol handguns, and thus magazines designed for them can be pistol mags. In contrast, they have said that the vz58 and mutant receivers are rifle receivers reconfigured into handgun format, and thus magazines designed for them are designed for rifle receivers, and limited as rifle mags.

Both handguns, but became handguns in different ways according to the lab, so magazines are designed for different firearms types.

But of course, that is the lab's opinion of the law's wording, and not law itself. You are trying to use one of their opinions (not law), against another one of their opinions (also not law).

For you to challenge their opinion, you would have to go against their interpretation of the law, have them challenge you on it by them charging you, then you defending your opinion of how the law works, against their opinion, in court.

We always have a fighting chance, but the road to the fight arena is the obstacle. The only way through the door to enter the fight, is to get charged. There is no other appeal process.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom