Steel shot in an older shotgun?

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Dr. Goodgun

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I inherited a 1976 Browning citori 12ga fixed choke shot gun from my late grampa. I am wondering if it is fine to shot steel loads as it is required by law in my province.

It is the original barrel which I believe is designed for lead shot. Iv heard of some folks converting their barrels for steel but is this really necessary?

Thanks
 
If it is a citori and is not a full choke I think you are safe, but maybe check with browning, or even check their website. I know the Belgian superposed guns are a no go for steel.
 
saskbooknut said:
Browning has a clear discussion about using steel shot in their older gun on their website.
Click to expand...

For sure pending the model. It says don't use it at all I remember correctly regardless what choke is installed on some.
Cheers

Fix the link they can see

http://ww w.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/can-i-shoot-steel-shot-in-my-browning-shotgun.html
 
If it has a full choke I would not shoot steel as it may bulge the barrel and separate the rib. You can tell the choke by the asterisk markings on the left side of the barrels at the breech end with the action open. * is Full ** is Modified and so on.

You can always have the full choke reamed out to Light Mod or improved for about $60. I have a 1976 Citori too, I reamed the full choke and shoot steel without problems - YMMV. I also had the forcing cones lengthened at the same time, the gun now patterns excellent with steel #3 and #4.

If I had a Browning Superposed I would not shoot steel or modify it. The Citori it is a more modern firearm (quality made by Miroku) and is not highly collectible, I say get out hunting with Grandpas shotgun.
 
All Citoris are good to go with steel even with FULL choke. The catch is no steel larger than #2. Browning has flipped flopped over the advice they give when shooting steel in Browning firearms more than a few times. The latest advice seems to exclude the Citori unless equipped with screw in chokes. I called Browning years ago with the same question about a Citori Upland model I owned. Advice was good to go with any choke but nothing larger than #2. This was for Japanese built barrels only. All Citoris are japan built.

Darryl
 
The trouble that Browning has is the unpredictable action of eejits.
If you give a green light to " no bigger than #2 shot, no tighter than modified", someone will inevitably shoot triple B out of a full choke, and be surprised when the barrel bulges and/or the rib separates.
 
I know of a couple of guys that have older Belgian Browning A5's . When steel shot came out they had their full chokes opened up. Due to not owning computers at the time, they were unaware of the hype and advice of not to shoot steel through them. They are still using the guns with no problems. My uncle bought a new Superposed 20 gauge in 1970. I think he turned around 80 when steel shot came out. He too had no desire to own a computer and was also unaware of the advice of not to shoot steel shot through it. He had the chokes opened up and shot steel through it until he died at 92. He lived right on the Delta Marsh so did a fair amount of shooting. My dad now has the gun and he used it last year with steel shot. There is no evidence what so ever that steel has hurt it, at least not in this case. I cannot speak to every case though.
 
To me it is not as simple saying keep it no bigger that no. 2 and all will be good. Unlike you guys I have seen quite a few vintage shotguns damaged from steel shot especially in the early days when steel was new and guys knew no better and just took their old guns and fired them unaltered
Belling of the barrel was common and we actually had a few split in the choke area even though they were opened up from full and many had severe barrel scoring

Most of the damage the owners didnot even realize it was happening nor do they today IMO unless a big bulge or split occurs
An issue in the past was the poor quality of the steel shot wad which allowed the scoring of the barrel and the big one was the poor grade of steel pellets being used in the factory ammo which after a trip or two out into the rain or salt air started to rust up or bond togther within the shell to the extent almost a slug was created which did a lot of damage

I don't shoot factory steel only steel reloads but if I was I would want to make sure exactly what is in the rounds I was firing to make sure they have a quality wad that protects the barrel. That is easy to see, just pick a few up after firing to see if the pellets worked outside and keep a eye on the barrel for scoring. Also make sure quality plated shot is used to ensure they cannot bond together since un like lead there is no give
This was damaged with steel shot that had no give and bonded together

For me if I was to fire steel out of a vintage shotgun , open the choke as required and fire only quality plated steel ammo with good wads that protect the barrel. I would be suprised if some of the cheaper steel factory loads have both even today
Vintage guns that have any value to me will never see steel shot regardless if safe or not
Just my 2 cents
Cheers
 
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Thanks for the excellent post 3macs1, I am glad that I have only been firing quality (Kent) steel so far.

When you inspect a wad how can you tell that steel has worked outside of it? Do you just inspect and feel the bulges or indents the the steel left while being fired? While I was patterning my citori I inspected a few fired wads and they had rounded indents where the pellets expanded the plastic cup. I can imagine that if the wad was not doing its job those indents would not be nice and round but more streaked lengthwise from the pellets being ejected from the wad at firing...

I have also been inspecting the bore for evidence of scoring or bulging, so far everything is fine after about 25 rounds.
 
No, it is not as simple as no. 2 shot.
We were discussing Japanese made Browning shotguns, and reasonable loads for them, as I recall.
Most older double guns, US made or European are unsuitable for steel ever. And yes, lots of guns have been damaged. Anecdotal evidence of one use does not prove saftey.
 
rocklobster said:
Thanks for the excellent post 3macs1, I am glad that I have only been firing quality (Kent) steel so far.

When you inspect a wad how can you tell that steel has worked outside of it? Do you just inspect and feel the bulges or indents the the steel left while being fired? While I was patterning my citori I inspected a few fired wads and they had rounded indents where the pellets expanded the plastic cup. I can imagine that if the wad was not doing its job those indents would not be nice and round but more streaked lengthwise from the pellets being ejected from the wad at firing...

I have also been inspecting the bore for evidence of scoring or bulging, so far everything is fine after about 25 rounds.
Click to expand...

Wish I had some better pictures to explain but I will try. The indents are perfectly normal. What you are looking for is was the steel shot payload whatever it was totally protected from coming into contact with the barrel unprotected.
So did any of the indents show where they punched through thus allowing a steel on steel contact, did any of the wad petals break off, fracture or the gap appear to be too wide which allowed steel shot to sit in the gap and get barrel on barrel. Is there evidence of the wad not providing the proper gas seal cup damage, pieces missing etc thus effecting the shape of the wad during it's exit thus not providing the protection required. Basically anything you can see that would make you say I don't think that wad is 100% protecting my barrel and the proof will be the score lines in the bore so keep a close watch

Look at the first pic here, no real wad damage, no indication of the gaps between the pedals opening up and allowing shot to sit in the gap and a great seal vs the second one.

One will never convince me that just from the gap damage by the gas seal on those some steel on steel didnot rub on that barrel
The first the the sam1 wads I have always used for reloading steel the second are out of those new remington hypersonic which I would not shoot out of a piece of schedule 80 pipe let alone a shot gun I cared about
Hope that helps
Kind Regards
Joe

sam1


remington hypersonic
 
Okay that clarifies things up completely, thanks Joe!

I have heard some bad things about the Remington Hypersonics and the quality of those wads in pic 2 illustrates this. You can see that there would be a large gap between those petals, match that with a high velocity charge and you have a recipe for unnecessary stress on any shotgun.

You've got me thinking into reloading my own steel shot...
 
There have been many reports of overpressure type failures of firearms with Hypersonic ammo on the internet. Not going to be used by me, ever.
 
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