Handloads for the FN 49 (8mm)

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Frost Cracked

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Hey folks.

Following my exploding FN 49 problems, I'm looking at doing some handloads for the FN 49 (8mm) rifle. The problem is, I haven't been able to find a lot of information, and was hoping the Milsurp community on CGN might help.

I know, that I need to load it a lot lighter than standard 8mm reloading guides (which are intended for bolt action systems), but I am not entirely sure where to start.

So far, the leads I have to go on, are, a medium burning powder, and to examine powder and load combinations from similar Semi-Auto milsurps, such as the M1 Garand. I have a box of 150 grain 8mm which I will be trying some tests on, but if anyone has any information on doing loads for the heavier bullets, I would appreciate it.
 
I haven't done any reloading for it, but the intended load for that rifle was a 198grn FMJ boat tail, at roughly 2450ft/sec (which isn't a slouch of a round). It is not really a matter of loading it light as much as having the gas system properly adjusted for the ammo.

People have had issues with FN-49s blowing up in the past because they have done things like shoot Turkish surplus out of them, which was the 1905 version of the 8mm round (150grn bullet at 2900ft/sec) and most modern commercial ammo, because again it tends to be loaded hotter if it is from Europe (though American loaded ammo tends to be much softer shooting due to the Commission 88 rifles out there).
 
Of most importance on an FN49 is the firing pin,make sure you have a two piece firing pin with a strong firing pin spring.
The 8mm version(Egyptian contract)was the only version without a firing pin safety stop incorporated in the bolt and from reading on all the different forums quite a few
have blown up because of slam fires and out of battery explosions.
So,it is also very important to use the hardest primers you can get,CCI 34 orCCI 200.
My FN49 is a Argentine one that their Navy converted to .308 with a removable 20/5 round magazine,and to test mine for slam fires I took the extractor out of the bolt and chambered a primed case.
Than let the bolt fly home at max speed and checked the primer for indent,just miniscule so no chance of a slam fire and it shot great at the range.
I have loaded for my G43,8mm with 44gr of IMR4064 or IMR4895 behind a 150gr bullet but have never shot anything heavier,don't want to break her.
 
I am looking to do a cast load for my FN49. I found lots of online discussion at Castboolits for cast M1 garand loads and had good success creating a cast load just heavy enough to cycle the action. I have put off making a 8mm load as I still have a hoard of German army 8mm on strippers, but that won't last forever.
 
howard2 said:
I am looking to do a cast load for my FN49. I found lots of online discussion at Castboolits for cast M1 garand loads and had good success creating a cast load just heavy enough to cycle the action. I have put off making a 8mm load as I still have a hoard of German army 8mm on strippers, but that won't last forever.
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Should work but the gas bleed will need adjusting of course.
I just wonder if the lead will start blocking off the gas port,some people say not to use lead bullets in gas operated rifles.
Have never tried it myself.
 
i have same question on 8mm reloads BUT FOR MY G43 RIFLE I HAVE AVAILABLE 170 GRAIN AND OR 220 GRAIN PROJECTILES SO IF A LOAD IS AT OR BELOW roughly 2450ft/sec things should be ok?

( I HAVE a g43 shooting kit installed so gas system can be adjusted)
 
Eaglelord17 said:
I haven't done any reloading for it, but the intended load for that rifle was a 198grn FMJ boat tail, at roughly 2450ft/sec (which isn't a slouch of a round). It is not really a matter of loading it light as much as having the gas system properly adjusted for the ammo.

People have had issues with FN-49s blowing up in the past because they have done things like shoot Turkish surplus out of them, which was the 1905 version of the 8mm round (150grn bullet at 2900ft/sec) and most modern commercial ammo, because again it tends to be loaded hotter if it is from Europe (though American loaded ammo tends to be much softer shooting due to the Commission 88 rifles out there).
Click to expand...

I've been shooting factory ammo, PPU and S&B, and, it kicks the rifle, HARD! Even with the gas port fully open to vent as much as possible... I've replaced spring systems in it, but it still hits like a truck... Hence my desire to find some very light gallery-style loads.
 
It is a full power rifle with no muzzle brake, what did you expect ;)

I understand what you are saying though, lighter rounds tend to make it more enjoyable for most people. I would just start with low loads and work up if that is what you want to do (might take a bit of time to find a load you prefer though). I thought you were mainly concerned with the gun blowing up, and I have only heard of that happening for two reasons. One they used Turkish surplus in it (which isn't too much of a risk anymore, especially in Canada), or two it still had the one piece firing pin.
 
Eaglelord17 said:
It is a full power rifle with no muzzle brake, what did you expect ;)

I understand what you are saying though, lighter rounds tend to make it more enjoyable for most people. I would just start with low loads and work up if that is what you want to do (might take a bit of time to find a load you prefer though). I thought you were mainly concerned with the gun blowing up, and I have only heard of that happening for two reasons. One they used Turkish surplus in it (which isn't too much of a risk anymore, especially in Canada), or two it still had the one piece firing pin.
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Problem was, I had the two piece pin, and was using new, factory ammo. Factory ammo has allways slammed this gun hard, even with the gas port completely open, it was hammering the brass hard, leaving huge divots in the base of the casings. It blew up when I was shooting some S&B soft point. Thankfully a gunsmith was able to put it back together again (mend the stock, press parts back into spec).
 
Frost Cracked said:
Problem was, I had the two piece pin, and was using new, factory ammo. Factory ammo has allways slammed this gun hard, even with the gas port completely open, it was hammering the brass hard, leaving huge divots in the base of the casings. It blew up when I was shooting some S&B soft point. Thankfully a gunsmith was able to put it back together again (mend the stock, press parts back into spec).
Click to expand...

Maybe the hard extraction is due to a gas plug with too large a hole,someone could have drilled it larger.
Also on the 8mm version you can still have slam fires because the two piece firing pin can still move forward under inertia since the back part is not locked by the firing pin safety stop.
The Egyptians did not want this safety feature in their rifles for some unknown reason although Mr Saive had from the very beginning designed that in the bolt.
All the other contracts had it incorporated.
I knew a local gunsmith in the eighties who had an 8mm blow up on him and swore never to touch another one.
So be careful,use the hardest primers you can find and perform the safety check with a primed case like I mentioned in my previous post.
 
I forgot to mention in my previous post that I put every case in the case gauge after resizing just to make sure that they will chamber and also check if they need trimming.
Once in awhile I run into a case that will not fit the case gauge,even after running it through the sizing die several times,either I toss it or anneal,depends on how many I have.
For a bolt action gun its not such a big deal if a round takes extra force to close the bolt,but on semi auto it could have dire results if it does not chamber.
 
Garand, noted the sizing issue. Had to size, check in the chamber, and resize as needed. Crunched a couple shells before I found that out.

Tried out 4 rounds of 150 grain, with 44 grains of Varget. Less kick, shells did not fly as far, and indentation marks were a lot less severe. Still concerned about it though, as the gas port was full on open for this. No info on grouping, shot at 10 yards solely to check functionality.

After a lot of examination, I'm beginning to think, that the gas plug may have gotten itself oversized on the hole, possably either by wear, a bad plug, or 'bubba' who drilled it out because his rifle wasn't cycling properly (because he didn't know about the gas vent).

Local gunsmith is having a look to see if he can close that hole up a bit with a bushing, to compensate.

I'll be doing another few loads of Varget, and some 3031, to check results tomorrow.
 
Frost Cracked said:
Garand, noted the sizing issue. Had to size, check in the chamber, and resize as needed. Crunched a couple shells before I found that out.

Tried out 4 rounds of 150 grain, with 44 grains of Varget. Less kick, shells did not fly as far, and indentation marks were a lot less severe. Still concerned about it though, as the gas port was full on open for this. No info on grouping, shot at 10 yards solely to check functionality.

After a lot of examination, I'm beginning to think, that the gas plug may have gotten itself oversized on the hole, possably either by wear, a bad plug, or 'bubba' who drilled it out because his rifle wasn't cycling properly (because he didn't know about the gas vent).

Local gunsmith is having a look to see if he can close that hole up a bit with a bushing, to compensate.

I'll be doing another few loads of Varget, and some 3031, to check results tomorrow.
Click to expand...

Good to hear it's doing better.
Just out of curiosity I measured my gas plug last night,it is still the original Argentine one marked 7.65 but the rifle has been re-barrelled to .308.
The hole in the plug is about 3.6 mm measured with a drill bit and it also has a notch opposite the gas hole that has to line up with the gas bleed hole,maybe it's not there anymore,someone could have put it in a lathe and shortened it thereby eliminating that notch,that way no gas will be bled off.
My rifle does not dent the cases at all and the gas bleed is 2/3 closed.
Did not really check how far the brass flies since I use a home made brass catcher,so they all end up on the bench beside me and don't fly into other peoples faces.
One more thing occurred to me,does your rifle have all four recoil springs,there should be two inners and two outers or maybe they have lost their strength.
Hope this helps,
Herman
 
Back from the range!

My local gunsmith, drilled out, and inserted a rivet into the gas plug hole. Decreased the size of the gas port by about 50%.

5 shots with 44 grains of Varget produced very light extractor markings, and no noticeable indents from striking the receiver cover.

5 shots with 42 grains of 4895 produced no visible markings from either extractor or receiver cover. In addition, the bolt did not cycle fully enough to lock open when finished. I will be attempting a 3rd round of tests with more 4895, and a new can of 3031, next weekend.

Closing the hole slightly seems to have made a measured improvement, and moving to a fast burning powder is helping greatly. Results of 3rd test will begin test #4, for actual shooting performance/accuracy
 
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