Remington 700, I think im hooked

Here's another solid vote for that wonderful 700 Remington. Like c-fbmi, I have owned many, many 700's

I have also built a large number of custom guns on the 700 platform. Never have they let me down.

Often, factory 700 shoot sub-moa out of box. 700's are great rifles. Dave.
 
I like CRF and I like the 700 too, but I'm not blind to its shortcomings. The 700s produced in the early '70s had stocks with narrow forends and press checkering. The one I had split from the forward action screw half way through the checkering to the front, and from the tang back through the pistol grip, so I think that counts as a failure, but the BDL stock design improved dramatically in '77 or '78.

I have owned two Remington bolt actions, a M-700 and a M-7 that needed their extractors replaced because they were worn out and skipped past the rim of the cartridge in the chamber. I was dissatisfied with the installation of the new factory style extractor on the 700, as it scraped brass from the cartridge rim, so I suppose I chose the wrong gunsmith. This experience taught me that while both 700 extractors and CRF extractors wear out, its easier to snap a new extractor on a 98 Mauser style bolt than it is to rivet and shape a new extractor to the inside ring of a 700 bolt. When working up a load for my M-700 target rifle, I inadvertently loaded a heavy overload, and although the action contained the pressure, the extractor was a casualty when I had to tear the badly expanded cartridge case off the bolt face. This one was replaced with a SAKO extractor, considered superior by some, and considered dangerous by others, and I understand both arguments.

The 700 is a good rifle. It is arguably the strongest action available from all but custom action manufacturers, and it has proven to be reliable under even hen used under harsh conditions. Its too big an action for the .222 family of cartridges, which is strange considering they were Remington's children. Too bad Remington didn't see fit to make a micro action along the lines of SAKO, BRNO (CZ) and Krico.
 
I think I buggered the barrel on my 700 in 243 and was considering having a 7mm/08 barrel put on it but then I happened into a 7x57 Husqvarna rifle.
 
Boomer said:
So what happened to the .243? Maybe its fixable.
Click to expand...


It just won't shoot like it used to, no matter what ammunition or scope I use.

I think I was over zealous cleaning it. Damaged the crown or even the bore.
 
Boomer said:
I like CRF and I like the 700 too, but I'm not blind to its shortcomings. The 700s produced in the early '70s had stocks with narrow forends and press checkering. The one I had split from the forward action screw half way through the checkering to the front, and from the tang back through the pistol grip, so I think that counts as a failure, but the BDL stock design improved dramatically in '77 or '78.

I have owned two Remington bolt actions, a M-700 and a M-7 that needed their extractors replaced because they were worn out and skipped past the rim of the cartridge in the chamber. I was dissatisfied with the installation of the new factory style extractor on the 700, as it scraped brass from the cartridge rim, so I suppose I chose the wrong gunsmith. This experience taught me that while both 700 extractors and CRF extractors wear out, its easier to snap a new extractor on a 98 Mauser style bolt than it is to rivet and shape a new extractor to the inside ring of a 700 bolt. When working up a load for my M-700 target rifle, I inadvertently loaded a heavy overload, and although the action contained the pressure, the extractor was a casualty when I had to tear the badly expanded cartridge case off the bolt face. This one was replaced with a SAKO extractor, considered superior by some, and considered dangerous by others, and I understand both arguments.

The 700 is a good rifle. It is arguably the strongest action available from all but custom action manufacturers, and it has proven to be reliable under even hen used under harsh conditions. Its too big an action for the .222 family of cartridges, which is strange considering they were Remington's children. Too bad Remington didn't see fit to make a micro action along the lines of SAKO, BRNO (CZ) and Krico.
Click to expand...

The Vanguard/Howa actions are pretty much a 700 with some improvements. Same style of recessed bolt face for the "3 rings of steel", heavy M16 style extractor, recoil lug integral to the receiver like a '98 for easy bedding, good trigger options, heavy duty receiver. Not really suitable for short actions
as they are loooong....but nice long/Magnum actions. Great gas handling too.
weatherby_vanguard_back_country_1.jpg

trigpuladjandstklug.gif
 
MD said:
It just won't shoot like it used to, no matter what ammunition or scope I use.

I think I was over zealous cleaning it. Damaged the crown or even the bore.
Click to expand...

There are several reasons why a rifle will suddenly stop shooting well, and you've touched on a couple of them. If your scope and action screws are tight, and the scope tracks and holds zero when mounted on another rifle, its no longer part of the equation.

If you haven't cleaned with a powerful copper cutting chemical, you could have a buildup of copper in the bore. If you do use a powerful copper cutter and have cleaned down to bare metal, you might have to put 50 rounds through the bore before it begins to shoot well again. If you use ammonia, or a solvent with a high ammonia content to clean the bore, be sure all of the ammonia is removed and is not allowed to evaporate while in the bore, as this is the action that causes corrosion, and pitting. Its true that improper use of a cleaning rod can damage a bore, but it would mean you were extremely careless allowing the rod to repeatedly slap the bore walls, you didn't use a bore guide, or perhaps you used a stainless brush in a stainless barrel. The condition of the barrel can be assessed by a gunsmith with a bore scope, and he can make recommendations from what he sees.

If the barrel has seen lots of shooting, the chamber throat could be badly eroded, but this can be mitigated before replacing the barrel; by choosing bullets with a long bearing surface, by seating your bullets long, and/or by having a gunsmith shorten the barrel shank and re-chamber the barrel, or by simply rechambering to a longer cartridge, say from .243 to 6mm-06, if your action is long enough to accommodate the longer cartridge.

If the bedding surface between a wood stock and the action has softened due to exposure to gun oils and solvents, the rifle won't shoot. Depending on the degree of contamination, it might be cured by glass bedding, or you might have to replace the stock. If the rifle fired a large number of rounds with loose stock screws, the bedding surface will be damaged, and the rifle won't shoot. Glass bedding will restore the accuracy of the rifle If you removed the pressure point from the barrel channel to attain a free floating barrel, it might have improved accuracy, it might have reduced accuracy but improved consistency (no fliers), or the rifle's accuracy might have taken a dump. The solution is to experiment with shims in place of the pressure point, until the sweet spot is found.

If the crown of the barrel impacted a hard object, it might have deformed, negatively affecting accuracy; cutting a new crown should resolve the issue. If there is bore damage near the muzzle, the barrel can be shortened, and a new crown cut.
 
Hitzy said:
The Vanguard/Howa actions are pretty much a 700 with some improvements. Same style of recessed bolt face for the "3 rings of steel", heavy M16 style extractor, recoil lug integral to the receiver like a '98 for easy bedding, good trigger options, heavy duty receiver. Not really suitable for short actions
as they are loooong....but nice long/Magnum actions. Great gas handling too.
Click to expand...

They are a copy of a sako. The only thing they have in common with a remington is that they are both rifle actions.
 
Hitzy said:
The Vanguard/Howa actions are pretty much a 700 with some improvements. Same style of recessed bolt face for the "3 rings of steel", heavy M16 style extractor, recoil lug integral to the receiver like a '98 for easy bedding, good trigger options, heavy duty receiver. Not really suitable for short actions
as they are loooong....but nice long/Magnum actions. Great gas handling too.
weatherby_vanguard_back_country_1.jpg
Click to expand...

guntech has mentioned before about the issue with doing a Sako-style extractor modification on a Remington 700 bolt --- specifically, the lack of a bolt guide on the Remington 700 bolt leaves an open path for gas should it bypass the extractor during a case failure. Unfortunately, I've never owned a Vanguard, but I'm curious if they addressed this issue with their action? I don't see a bolt guide on the above picture, but is there something different about the action's design that mitigates the concern?

I've certainly been impressed by what I've read regarding both the Vanguard and Vanguard 2 rifles, enough that I got very tempted to jump on the Blaze ones that went for sale, but I'm already pretty well stocked with rifles, and I managed to exercise some self-control.
 
For those who feel they simply "must" change out the trigger on their Remington 700,
you may want to try the Triggertech unit. It is one of the nicest 700 replacements I have ever seen.

While I am very comfortable with the original Walker trigger, adjusted properly, I am not fond
of the newer X-Mark units, and have replaced a couple with Triggertechs. Nice triggers, indeed.

Dave.
 
stickhunter said:
guntech has mentioned before about the issue with doing a Sako-style extractor modification on a Remington 700 bolt --- specifically, the lack of a bolt guide on the Remington 700 bolt leaves an open path for gas should it bypass the extractor during a case failure. Unfortunately, I've never owned a Vanguard, but I'm curious if they addressed this issue with their action? I don't see a bolt guide on the above picture, but is there something different about the action's design that mitigates the concern?

I've certainly been impressed by what I've read regarding both the Vanguard and Vanguard 2 rifles, enough that I got very tempted to jump on the Blaze ones that went for sale, but I'm already pretty well stocked with rifles, and I managed to exercise some self-control.
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Vanguard has 3 good sized vent holes on the bolt body as you can see in the pic. They vent at 3-oclock out the right side of the action. Howa is the same except the vent holes are at 6-oclock directly into the mag well. Which way is better.... I dunno, both are probably fine, and arguably the best gas handling designs since the '98 Mauser
 
Hitzy said:
The original "Golden Bear" model was....that action/design was dropped in the 60's. The rifle you get today has bern modified alot since the Sako design.
http://www.sporting-rifle.com/reviews/howa-1500-review/
Click to expand...

Really?
From your article: "Today’s model 1500 has changed somewhat from the Golden Bear of the 1960s, but it is still based on the great old Sako action, albeit with some design alterations."
Below are the three actions, the sako, the howa 1500, and the 700. You be the judge if it's a sako copy or as you put it "The Vanguard/Howa actions are pretty much a 700 with some improvements."

The sako:
image.jpg1_zps8f8ixgi5.jpg

The howa 1500:
image.jpg2_zpslfxxkuo2.jpg

The remington:
image.jpg3_zpsrommkvbd.jpg
 
Hitzy said:
Vanguard has 3 good sized vent holes on the bolt body as you can see in the pic. They vent at 3-oclock out the right side of the action. Howa is the same except the vent holes are at 6-oclock directly into the mag well. Which way is better.... I dunno, both are probably fine, and arguably the best gas handling designs since the '98 Mauser
Click to expand...

Wow, this keeps getting better.... I can't wait until guntech reads this. lol.
 
double gun said:
Really?
From your article: "Today’s model 1500 has changed somewhat from the Golden Bear of the 1960s, but it is still based on the great old Sako action, albeit with some design alterations."
Below are the three actions, the sako, the howa 1500, and the 700. You be the judge if it's a sako copy or as you put it "The Vanguard/Howa actions are pretty much a 700 with some improvements."

The sako:
image.jpg1_zps8f8ixgi5.jpg

The howa 1500:
image.jpg2_zpslfxxkuo2.jpg

The remington:
image.jpg3_zpsrommkvbd.jpg
Click to expand...

So you are basing you argument strictly on the external appearance of the 2 actions?
How about you list what is actually still the same on the L61/L579 vs the "copy" as you call it the Howa 1500.
I'll list the differences:
Sako fixed ejector, Howa plunger
Sako has full length bolt guide, Howa does not
Sako has a short stubby extractor, Howa has a long M16 style extractor
Sako has a flush lug bolt face, Howa has the lugs set back (see pics below.... Jeeze which bolts look more alike...hmmm)
Trigger mechanisms are different on the Sako and Howa.
Breechface of the barrels need to be machined differently due to the different bolt designs of the Sako and Howa.
The entire "3 rings of steel" feature is virtually identical between the 700 and the 1500. The only thing I can think of that was retained from the Sako is the recoil lug being integral to the receiver....that's it.
Do you even own any of these guns bro?

Howa 1500 bolt.
weatherby_vanguard_back_country_1.jpg

Sako bolt.
20150305_8127-600x402.jpg

700 bolt.
33_1.jpg
 
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Hitzy said:
So you are basing you argument strictly on the external appearance of the 2 actions?
How about you list what is actually still the same on the L61/L579 vs the "copy" as you call it the Howa 1500.
I'll list the differences:
Sako fixed ejector, Howa plunger
Sako has full length bolt guide, Howa does not
Sako has a short stubby extractor, Howa has a long M16 style extractor
Sako has a flush lug bolt face, Howa has the lugs set back (see pics below.... Jeeze which bolts look more alike...hmmm)
Trigger mechanisms are different on the Sako and Howa.
Breechface of the barrels need to be machined differently due to the different bolt designs of the Sako and Howa.
The entire "3 rings of steel" feature is virtually identical between the 700 and the 1500. The only thing I can think of that was retained from the Sako is the recoil lug being integral to the receiver....that's it.
Do you even own any of these guns bro?
]
Click to expand...

First off, I'm not your bro. Second off, I have owned all three, and rebarreled two of the versions. You?
3rdly It's comical that I even have to answer this post as you have no clue, but here goes.

-The howa and the sako are both square bottom recievers (that you can actually use the same stock with minor fitting) the remington is a round action machined from round stock.
-howa, and sako both make it known the howa was and is based on the sako design. The fact that you somehow think you know better than the two companies that made the actions is laughable. Your big arguement is based on both bolts having a plunger style ejector and a counterbored barrel recess. Guess what, there are a 100 other rifles with the same two features.
-Both the sako and howa have integral recoil lugs
-both have 1-piece bolts with integral bolt handles
- have you worked on the sako and howa triggers? I have, they are virtually the same thing, oh and a far cry from the 700 trigger.
-The "bolt guide" was only there for gas handling in the sako, and yes howa removed it to stay clear of patient infringement. To compensate, the went to the m16 style extractor which is pinned in.

-The "3 rings of steel" you keep mentioning does not exist on the howa even though you think it does. On the remington the extractor is encased in the bolt head. In the case of a catastrophic case failure the gases force the bolt nose out to seal with the counterbore in the barrel. Your howa does not - because (you guessed it) the m-16 extractor cut doesn't allow it to seal.

But of course you know all this. And still think it's a remington because of the bolt nose. lol.... Keep digging. I would love to continue this battle of wits, but you are obviously unarmed.
 
double gun said:
-The "bolt guide" was only there for gas handling in the sako, and yes howa removed it to stay clear of patient infringement. To compensate, the went to the m16 style extractor which is pinned in.
Click to expand...

double gun, I'm not familiar with the differences between a Sako-style extractor and an M16 extractor except for what you mentioned re: the pinning. Do you feel there is a difference between the M16 extractor's ability to deflect gas vs. the Sakos, or could the Vanguard action also have the same limitation as the converted Remington 700 bolts re: no blocking of gas that escapes by the extractor?

I remember seeing the picture of the Sako bolt that was damaged by a case head separation and you could clearly see that the bolt guide had blocked at least some of the gas that had been released when the extractor was blown off.
 
The sako style extractor uses a little spring plunger to keep it in place and allow it to pivot over the case rim. (You can see it in pictures, just behind the extractor)

The m16 rocks on a cross pin (which also holds it in place) and uses a captured coil spring under the tail. With it pinned in place and the extractor inside the counterbored barrel I think it would be less likely to become a projectile than the sako style in a remington bolt.

Yes the sako style when used with the "bolt guide" is 1000x safer than all the partial conversions you see where they use a sako extractor, but nothing to keep it from coming back thru the lug raceway.

Now all this said, look how many are out there including all the remington clone custom actions that never have an issue. I think it's one of those things that's fine until you are unlucky enough to experience a catastrophic failure.

I hope guntech chimes in, he is the one who is much more studied on the safety issues involved.
 
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