Swiss Arms VS ACR

bacardi said:
Which one is the better NR black rifle? Swiss Arms or ACR, and your reason. Thanks
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I had every version of the Swiss available at one point. It is unfortunate that the 308 and 7.62x39 swiss/sig rifles are prohib.

I hunt, so 223 is not cutting it. This is why I now have ACRs with big bore caliber conversions.

In the accuracy department the sniper version of the Swiss wins, the ACR is more accurate than the rest, but mine wear aftermarket barrels unlike the Swiss did as tested
 
bacardi said:
ACR is cheaper and lighter. Swiss Arms is more expensive and heavier.

Built quality? ACR can beat Swiss made rifle?
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I would think the Swiss is the lighter rifle. Suppose I could be wrong but an NR Swiss certainly feels lighter in my hands than my NR ACR I used to have. (Dlask NR barrel)
 
What is your reasoning to choose SA with diopter sight over ACR in SHTF situation?
Also, why the diopter one instead of the flat top one?


#### Proenneke said:
I've owned two different Swiss Arms, and an NR ACR. They were similarly accurate, although I'd give the edge to my ACR. However when you compare features, the ACR wins out, especially with the ability to use AR mags. In a SHTF situation, where the law did not matter, I'd take a 14.5 SA with diopter sights. But for the reality of modern day shooting in Canada, the ACR wins out.



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The Swiss Arms is more likely to go Prohib...... thats certainly on the top of my mind when it comes to choosing between the two. I totally agree with the others, the Swiss Arms are beautiful guns for sure!
 
warrenlikesboats said:
The Swiss Arms is more likely to go Prohib...... thats certainly on the top of my mind when it comes to choosing between the two. I totally agree with the others, the Swiss Arms are beautiful guns for sure!
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What will happens with if you own one and it goes prohibited? What happened the last time they went prohibited? Do you need to surrender it, or will it be grandfathered?
 
Not sure... I think when they went prohib before, they were intending on having them all submitted to the RCMP to be chopped at the owners loss. But because of the giant up cry, owners were granted anmesty (but the firearms were to be kept inside at all times) until the issue was sorted out a year+ later with bill C42. Now that there NR again, I think many Swiss owners are selling them off with the worry they may go Prohib once again now that the Liberal Majority is in power. Same with the 858's .
 
warrenlikesboats said:
Not sure... I think when they went prohib before, they were intending on having them all submitted to the RCMP to be chopped at the owners loss. But because of the giant up cry, owners were granted anmesty (but the firearms were to be kept inside at all times) until the issue was sorted out a year+ later with bill C42. Now that there NR again, I think many Swiss owners are selling them off with the worry they may go Prohib once again now that the Liberal Majority is in power. Same with the 858's .
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wolverine sold 400 858s rifles in under 2 hours last weekend
i guess some people are not afraid of tyrants
from nr to prohib back to nr and now back to probit? you cant make this stuff up
in 200 years peopke will look back on us and think we were insane
 
warrenlikesboats said:
Not sure... I think when they went prohib before, they were intending on having them all submitted to the RCMP to be chopped at the owners loss. But because of the giant up cry, owners were granted anmesty (but the firearms were to be kept inside at all times) until the issue was sorted out a year+ later with bill C42. Now that there NR again, I think many Swiss owners are selling them off with the worry they may go Prohib once again now that the Liberal Majority is in power. Same with the 858's .
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My guess is if they are gonna prohib it will be EVERY firearm
 
warrenlikesboats said:
Not sure... I think when they went prohib before, they were intending on having them all submitted to the RCMP to be chopped at the owners loss. But because of the giant up cry, owners were granted anmesty (but the firearms were to be kept inside at all times) until the issue was sorted out a year+ later with bill C42. Now that there NR again, I think many Swiss owners are selling them off with the worry they may go Prohib once again now that the Liberal Majority is in power. Same with the 858's .
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swiss and cz is non restricted by OIC , like the valmet ak47,FRT's lab tech.can' t revesre this alone.

You really think a gouvernement can change is mind every year ??? seriously . all semi are on the target, especially if is black.
 
bacardi said:
Can anyone confirm what happened with the Swiss Arms rifles when the government banned them the last time?
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nothing, the RCMP banned them, someone in the government signed off on the ban, then due to overwhelming response government gave amnesty, then government passed c42 which turned the previous NR ones back to NR
 
I loved my Swiss Arms classic green flat top but the point of impact shift experienced when switching from bipod to supporting it just in front of the magwell was around 5 moa and that is unacceptable to me. I also didn't find it overly accurate but to be fair I didn't try different ammo, I only shot American Eagle 55gr though mine. The Swiss Arms is a very well built rifle, I can't imagine any parts breaking. It has a very smooth and reliable long stroke gas sysem.

My ACR is a great rifle, it's well built and I've never had a malfunction that wasn't my fault such as not seating the mag fully. The ACR is more accurate with most ammo I've run through mine but again to be fair I have a stainless match grade non restricted length barrel on it. The ACR is built similar to an AR but with a few improvements in ergo's and a nice short stoke gas system.

Either rifle will serve you well and the cost is similar between the two (after converting the ACR to non restricted). The Swiss Arms is a proven design that works well but has been in the sights of the RCMP before and will probably be again now that we have a new government. The ACR is a much newer platform but it incorporates the designs of a couple older proven platforms while using modern manufacturing techniques and materials.
If you go with a Swiss Arms I would go with one of the models with the built in iron sights (and use them) as they are excellent and the rifle doesn't really give a good cheek weld with a scope mounted.

If possible the only way to know which one will be best for you is to find a way to shoot them both before you buy or to buy them both and sell the one that you like less. I chose to stay with the ACR because I wanted a platform I could run different calibers with and have built a 300 Blackout conversion for mine and also have a 6.8SPC barrel for it.

Good luck
 
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...you shoot dirt cheap ammo out of a $4,000 rifle and don't like its accuracy? cheap AE (dirty birdy) ammo doesn't usually group that well even in a bolt gun!!!

Are you shooting it scoped and properly benched to see what it can do? I was able to shoot 2L pop bottles at 300 yards, iron sights off the bench with mid grade ammo 9/10 times.

Yes the bipod changes POI (many do not use it or use it only to keep it out of the dirt) because the barrel is not free floated, this issue happens with all non-free loaded rifles with bipods...either sight in and shoot with the bipod all the time or don't. BUT it pretty much is always gonna be the same amount of change so you can know to account for it.
 
HK45auto said:
...you shoot dirt cheap ammo out of a $4,000 rifle and don't like its accuracy? cheap AE (dirty birdy) ammo doesn't usually group that well even in a bolt gun!!!

Are you shooting it scoped and properly benched to see what it can do? I was able to shoot 2L pop bottles at 300 yards, iron sights off the bench with mid grade ammo 9/10 times.

Yes the bipod changes POI (many do not use it or use it only to keep it out of the dirt) because the barrel is not free floated, this issue happens with all non-free loaded rifles with bipods...either sight in and shoot with the bipod all the time or don't. BUT it pretty much is always gonna be the same amount of change so you can know to account for it.
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Don't get all defensive there, I'm not hacking the SA, I really liked the rifle but the shift in poi was unacceptable to me. If I can't use the bipod or if I have to have a different zero depending how I'm supporting the rifle I don't want it. That's why for most of the time I owned it I removed the factory bipod. My non free floated AR's don't shift nearly that much. It was scoped and off sandbags which is how I do all accuracy testing.
All I'm saying is that shooting dirty bird in both rifles gave better groups in the ACR by a long shot. Plus the ability to use STANAG magazines in the ACR makes it better for me than a rifle that uses proprietary and expensive magazines like the SA.
Fact is that most guys on here are not going to shoot $1/round ammo from any rifle they own and are more likely to shoot Norinco junk or dirty bird 90% of the time.
If you want an accurate semi auto then nothing can touch the HK SL8 series, the ergos aren't for everyone but they're a lot better with the Hera Arms lower.
 
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mikethebike said:
wolverine sold 400 858s rifles in under 2 hours last weekend
i guess some people are not afraid of tyrants
from nr to prohib back to nr and now back to probit? you cant make this stuff up
in 200 years peopke will look back on us and think we were insane
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Its only a 1000$ gun tho (CZ) and chances are you'll get your moneys worth with cheap ammo. Think most people are willing to risk the 1000$ but may reconsider the 4000-5000$

Not to mention the parts value alone in a CZ makes a prohib seem like whatever.
 
The Swiss arms wins for me based on my limited use at a police shooting competition. The SA rifles used dominated by far. It has a track record which is important to me. I'm not saying the ACR is a bad gun, I'm not insulting anyone for buying one either. I just like the Swiss arm's. Do you gotta alter your training to get to an adept level with the SA? yes. If your an AR guy it's different for sure. But it's not gunna be impossible, and I have alot of hours behind a c8.
 
jackdanyel said:
swiss and cz is non restricted by OIC , like the valmet ak47,FRT's lab tech.can' t revesre this alone.

You really think a gouvernement can change is mind every year ??? seriously . all semi are on the target, especially if is black.
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There is was an OIC for the valmet? Please post link and details. It is my understanding that it never recieved prohib status to begin with, so what was the OIC for?
 
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