Elcan SpecterDR or Aimpoint CompM4 w/3x magnifier

CanAR15 said:
I agree somewhat but if I'm #####ing about .5-1lbs (for magnifier) then I need to hit the gym a bit more. If I had the red dot and 3x magnifier I'd most likely never take off the 3x, negating the weight savings from the Elcan.
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I suppose it's really about what your philosophy of use is. The lighter I can make my rifle, the better. Faster pointing, less fatigue, easier to drive onto target etc. If you use your gear in the bush or for work, you'll appreciate any weight savings. Of course more upper body PT is always necessary, in fact, PT combined with shooting is excellent for training.
 
I have 3 light rifles with just dots
3 heavy rifles with either scopes, browe, acogs or elcan
i have enough spare scopes or dots to make them all magnified rifles or dot rifkes
 
I don't swap optics.....they get their own dedicated dependent on size etc. Since this one is going to be my version of M4gery, I've decided that I like the look, options, usability, etc of the Elcan. Thanks for the insight and opinions.....more optic choices just means more guns to buy/build.
 
onetwentyish said:
I never understood the hate on Elcans external adjustments. I have never seen an example of it being a poor design. It's just a different design, some people don't like different or innovation.
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Externally adjusted scopes are never going to be as tough as internal, it just will not happen.

That said the OS4 and DR are miles ahead of the C79.
 
Gunnerlove said:
Hirsch can get you into a 3-10 SHV for $1162. NXS 1-4 $1595.
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my god I was robbed!
 
Vortex Razor gen2 1-6. A lot of US SOF forces have been picking them up lately including SFOD-D, 75th Ranger Regiment and lots of Army SF ODAs have been using them instead of Elcans. Geissele was tasked with making a mount specifically for this scope for SOCOM. They are built like tanks have great, glass good reticle, lots of adjustment and the backing of the vortex warranty while being a pretty decent deal price wise coming in about $300 dollars cheaper than the Elcan.
 
Gunnerlove said:
Externally adjusted scopes are never going to be as tough as internal, it just will not happen.

That said the OS4 and DR are miles ahead of the C79.
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I only see an opinion, nothing more. I think the Specter line of Sights has proven reliability is rooted in quality, and external adjustments are of zero hindrance to the sights ability to do its job, and do it well.
 
Yes, my opinion after 2 decades of using Elcan optics (including the C79, DR and OS4) is that the NF NXS is a more robust optic.
Don't get me wrong I like my OS4. It is a good optic and I have figured out how to push it, but honestly anything where you can wiggle the optic in the mount............................... is not an NSX, or a Vortex, or a Loopy.
 
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onetwentyish said:
I only see an opinion, nothing more. I think the Specter line of Sights has proven reliability is rooted in quality, and external adjustments are of zero hindrance to the sights ability to do its job, and do it well.
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Your right it's not like USSOCOM is on their 3rd generation of Elcans which still have issues with not being able to hold zero and the fact that ARMS mounts have been proven to be utterly inferior compared to any other QD system. It's most likely going to be replaced in the next iteration of the SOPMOD program by the Vortex 1-6 Razor USSOCOM has already contracted Geissele to make a mount expressly for the optic and it has been seen in use by a lot of SOCOM and JSOC units for the past 2 years.
 
bkelly4790 said:
Your right it's not like USSOCOM is on their 3rd generation of Elcans which still have issues with not being able to hold zero and the fact that ARMS mounts have been proven to be utterly inferior compared to any other QD system. It's most likely going to be replaced in the next iteration of the SOPMOD program by the Vortex 1-6 Razor USSOCOM has already contracted Geissele to make a mount expressly for the optic and it has been seen in use by a lot of SOCOM and JSOC units for the past 2 years.
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Generation has nothing to do with it after the 1st Gen. What Gen is your pickup? If they made several generations of it clearly it's inferior! Haha. I see it as just the oposite. Further iterations allow for fine tuning.

As for ARMS levers that was a requirement that Elcan had to abide by for the contract. ARMS now produces adjustable replacement levers, DILLIGAF had them on his Elcan.

I don't follow up to date what the militaries are using, but I would have no words that could describe my astonishment if they adopted Vortex products, especially as a replacement for the Elcan Specter series. I don't mean that as a jab at Vortex either, they do have some great offerings, but I would feel more comfortable trusting my life in Eotech products then Vortex.
 
onetwentyish said:
Generation has nothing to do with it after the 1st Gen. What Gen is your pickup? If they made several generations of it clearly it's inferior! Haha. I see it as just the oposite. Further iterations allow for fine tuning.

As for ARMS levers that was a requirement that Elcan had to abide by for the contract. ARMS now produces adjustable replacement levers, DILLIGAF had them on his Elcan.

I don't follow up to date what the militaries are using, but I would have no words that could describe my astonishment if they adopted Vortex products, especially as a replacement for the Elcan Specter series. I don't mean that as a jab at Vortex either, they do have some great offerings, but I would feel more comfortable trusting my life in Eotech products then Vortex.
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Ok well there are quite a few sources stating the issues USSOCOM has had with the SpecterDR both the 1-4 and 1.5-6. There were zero shifts of 4" at 25m when going from 4x to 1x. Optics falling off rifles from the ARMS levers rattling loose from firing the weapon and issues with the external adjustments wearing out from dust, sand, dirt etc getting into them and not being mechanically accurate anymore and in some cases freely rotating with the slightest bit of contact.

However the Vortex Razor 1-6x is built to an amazing standard in all aspects its glass is better than some scopes that cost triple it, its reticle is very well thought out and can be used with 5.56 or 7.62, its built like a tank is rugged as all get out (my personal one took a UTM training round to the objective lens and was slightly scratched and marred that has destroyed any other optic I've witness this happen to including an Elcan SpecterOS), has a good daylight visible illuminated center dot its just an all around amazing scope. SFOD-D aka Delta Force, CAG, "The Unit" personnel have been running them for about 2 years so have other USSOCOM and JSOC forces also some of the top 3 gun competitors in the world like Back to Back 3 Gun Nation Pro Series champion US Army Army Marksmanship Unit's Daniel Horner and everyones favorite speed shooting freak of nature Jerry Miculek and his daugher Lena who actually had some part in designing the scope. It is a top tier quality optic from a top tier quality manufacturer period the end.
 
I have gone them through a few spectreDR from early production to the latest. I have never seen 4" at 25m shift, that is 16MOA!!!

The worst I have seen is 8MOA from a second year model, which was promptly replaced by the distributor. The ones from the last few years shift about 1 to 1.5MOA at the very most. With a 6MOA dot in the recticle , the shift is irrelevant for any range 1x is useful.

US units have more discretionary funds to buy kits, but people sometimes also get "free stuff". There are always people who bring their own kits, but it doesn't mean these are necessarily approved.
 
greentips said:
I have gone them through a few spectreDR from early production to the latest. I have never seen 4" at 25m shift, that is 16MOA!!!

The worst I have seen is 8MOA from a second year model, which was promptly replaced by the distributor. The ones from the last few years shift about 1 to 1.5MOA at the very most. With a 6MOA dot in the recticle , the shift is irrelevant for any range 1x is useful.

US units have more discretionary funds to buy kits, but people sometimes also get "free stuff". There are always people who bring their own kits, but it doesn't mean these are necessarily approved.
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I believe it was a SF ODA that was having the issue with their Elcans shifting 4" they were Gen2 models their fix was just to keep them on 4x and either mount Offset or piggybacked RMRs/Docters/T1s and use it basically as a fixed 4x scope.

I agree that Elcan is constantly trying to fix the issues but there are better options out there than the SpecterDR for a low power variable power combat optic. The Vortex Razor 1-6 and Luepold Mark 6 1-6 both in my personal experience out performed the SpecterDR and a lot of professionals seem to share that same opinion. I'm not trying to say that they are an awful optic but there are better options out there.
 
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