Strange problem with a .257 Roberts Improved

TedNugent said:
Everything I've found so far lists it at Roberts Improved, the original label in his writing says so, he wasn't one to make mistakes of that nature, and the dies I bought are also matching that.
Figure it out eventually. Is there an easy way to measure the angle of the chamber?

This is the tag that was attached to the gin when I got it, everything matches with the stamping of G33/40 on the receiver.
20160414_012926.jpg
Click to expand...



hoytcanon said:
There are actually 5 or 6 versions of Improved Roberts... you should do a chamber cast and send the specs to Dave Kiff at PTG... he can match the specs to a die and/or send a blueprint to a custom die shop... the custom dies will set you back close to $300 though.
Click to expand...

A few custom gun builders back in the day had their own specific reamers made up with their own provided dimensions, I have that came out of a shop in Seattle, fortunately the differences are so minute that I can use the 257 AI dies without issue.
 
Poured the wax, was all too proud of myself. Used a turkey baster to pour it in, seemed perfect. Till I pulled the cleaning rod out, and the dam plug I made out of 2 patches came with it, along with drip drip... think I will have some bore cleaning to do when I'm done. It's in the freezer now, will wait a few and see what I get.
Was lucky and had a small, maybe 1/8" diameter wooden skewer for closing up birds and used the pointed end to take out the extra wax that I thought would prevent a smooth extraction. Hope for the best. Will update shortly.
Thanks again for all the help.
 
Kevan said:
A few custom gun builders back in the day had their own specific reamers made up with their own provided dimensions, I have that came out of a shop in Seattle, fortunately the differences are so minute that I can use the 257 AI dies without issue.
Click to expand...


In all honesty, I wish I knew more. He may have installed and reamed the barrel himself, we brought a large metal parts cabinet with all sorts of goodies in it back to Dad's house, we didn't have time then to go through it, but won't be terribly surprised if I find a reamer or 2.
 
OK here it is, not bad for a first attempt, I think.

20160420_222702.jpg


Wondering if I should have let the wax flow a bit into the rifling. I debated that pretty hard before I did it, and put the patch right at the edge of it, could do another if anyone think that'd be of more help.
The angle of the shoulder does look less steep to me, and the length of the shoulder looks longer on the wax mold.
I was sitting here looking at the brass and the mold, and I just realized I haven't checked the brass I resized for length. ... what a blunder that'd be. I think I'll have a go at that now.

Anxious to hear back,

Aaron
 
Last edited:
kawicrash said:
A standard 257 Roberts has a 20 degree 45 minute shoulder.
Click to expand...

You are correct, my apologies: I made a reading error.

Eagleye said:
This right here is why someone who does not really know shouldn't be posting at all on this subject.
Click to expand...

b72471 said:
What I see is a standard 257 Rob shoulder angle. have you tried the standard shell to see if it chambers??
Click to expand...

And what if the standard 257 Roberts is a part of the issue, being a mislabel somewhere? As the only one to ask the question until that wax model came out, the possibility is still valid regardless even if I made a reading mistake.

Apology accepted.
 
Hey Aaron,
Those dies that I sent to you are as follows:
RCBS #32201 ".257 Roberts Improved 40 Degrees" (Group D) 2-Die Set: F.L. Sizing Die; Bullet Seater Die;
and those cases were .257 Roberts cases blown out to .257 Improved 40 degree, so your chambering must be different.
Suggest you chamber a (standard) .257 Roberts cartridge and fire it (ie Fire Form) - that will give you a case to compare with the ones I supplied you with.
The other alternative is to just shoot .257 Roberts through it all the time and forget making custom ammo (Ackley suggests this in Vol. I)
regards, Kerry
 
Here's a better pic too, the red background sucks for contrast, I wish I had something better.
20160420_224328.jpg

So it does seem to be the wrong angle, not just my eyes.
Hmm, guess I'll have to source some brass.
Funny thing is I was browsing on Midwayusa.com, and there seemed to be the suggestion that 7x57 would fit this chamber as well. He had a pile of that brass, most of which I sold (Grrrr), and now I'm wondering if that would be the solution. I'm probably completely off track here though. Straws look good to reach for when you're desperate enough lol.
Any thoughts?

Thanks again for all the effort guys, I really appreciate it.

Aaron

PS: anyone else's phone's autocorrect not recognize the word "Sucks", mine changes it to ducks ffs.
 
Last edited:
OK, if you can't get .257 ROB cartridges, you can easily convert 6mm Remington (aka .244 Remington) to .257 Roberts. In Ackley's own words: "(the .244 Remington) is simply the .257 Roberts case necked down to 6mm and increasing the shoulder angle to 26 degrees"

I sold my 257 ROB brass to someone else here and 1,200 x 6mm REM brass to several someone elses here so no can help, sorry!

7mm Mauser and 257 ROB are close, bottom of shoulder has good alignment, neck's a bit longer on the Mauser but I think you'll find 6mm REM is perfect.

In a pinch, I could sell you as many as about 3 boxes of new-old-stock W-W Super 7x57 if you are desperate...
 
K-C said:
OK, if you can't get .257 ROB cartridges, you can easily convert 6mm Remington (aka .244 Remington) to .257 Roberts. In Ackley's own words: "(the .244 Remington) is simply the .257 Roberts case necked down to 6mm and increasing the shoulder angle to 26 degrees"

I sold my 257 ROB brass to someone else here and 1,200 x 6mm REM brass to several someone elses here so no can help, sorry!

7mm Mauser and 257 ROB are close, bottom of shoulder has good alignment, neck's a bit longer on the Mauser but I think you'll find 6mm REM is perfect.

In a pinch, I could sell you as many as about 3 boxes of new-old-stock W-W Super 7x57 if you are desperate...
Click to expand...

I dug through the box of boxes of brass, and managed to find half a dozen boxes of 7x57 - tried it for fun, but it is tight around 80% or so of the way in. Back to the drawing board, will have to buy some brass or bullets if I can find them and shoot it and see where I end up.
Much obliged to everyone for the help and unique viewpoints on a tough one for me.

Aaron
If anyone has a source for them, please feel free to pm me. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
K-C said:
OK, if you can't get .257 ROB cartridges, you can easily convert 6mm Remington (aka .244 Remington) to .257 Roberts. In Ackley's own words: "(the .244 Remington) is simply the .257 Roberts case necked down to 6mm and increasing the shoulder angle to 26 degrees"

I sold my 257 ROB brass to someone else here and 1,200 x 6mm REM brass to several someone elses here so no can help, sorry!

7mm Mauser and 257 ROB are close, bottom of shoulder has good alignment, neck's a bit longer on the Mauser but I think you'll find 6mm REM is perfect.

In a pinch, I could sell you as many as about 3 boxes of new-old-stock W-W Super 7x57 if you are desperate...
Click to expand...

That was me that bought the brass, thanks again.
I've seen Nosler brass around, but it's shockingly expensive. Like $120/50.... Yikes!
 
kawicrash said:
That was me that bought the brass, thanks again.
I've seen Nosler brass around, but it's shockingly expensive. Like $120/50.... Yikes!
Click to expand...

have you got a couple pieces you can spare to the OP so we can solve this mystery?? heck I'll even pay the shipping
 
I may have seen one of those small old white plastic ammunition holders with some .257 brass. I'll have a look again tonight, always seem to run out of time, where does it go? ? I guess in my defense, I still have 8 or 10 boxes of stuff to sell for my Dad's good friend's widow, but I'm just hoping it didn't sell at one of the gun shows, which would be my kinda luck.
Might save us all a bunch of extra work, and thanks for the offer Yodave!
 
Last edited:
TedNugent said:
I may have seen one of those small old white plastic ammunition holders with some .257 brass. I'll have a look again tonight, always seem to run out of time, where does it go? ? I guess in my defense, I still have 8 or 10 boxes of stuff to sell for my Dad's good friend's widow, but I'm just hoping it didn't sell at one of the gun shows, which would be my kinda luck.
Might save us all a bunch of extra work, and thanks for the offer Yodave!
Click to expand...


I have two 257 AI's but I can't see your pictures( PICTURE RESTRICTIONS AT WORK) . From the sounds of it you have a 257.
I have a load of 257 brass in of various different brands, fireformed and not... If you need one I can send you one ore if you like I can send you a dummy with a bullet seated to factory lengths. By the way, don't sell those dies. You may need them. At one pt in time everyone comes to their senses and builds a 257AI :)

Chambre casting sounds easy, but in reality it can be a pain as you found out. Cerrosafe is the best way imho.

Anyway, let me know if I can help. Hmmmm Got pics of the rifle. Maybe you should just sell it to me :)
 
ACKLEY ABE said:
I have two 257 AI's but I can't see your pictures( PICTURE RESTRICTIONS AT WORK) . From the sounds of it you have a 257.
I have a load of 257 brass in of various different brands, fireformed and not... If you need one I can send you one ore if you like I can send you a dummy with a bullet seated to factory lengths. By the way, don't sell those dies. You may need them. At one pt in time everyone comes to their senses and builds a 257AI :)

Chambre casting sounds easy, but in reality it can be a pain as you found out. Cerrosafe is the best way imho.

Anyway, let me know if I can help. Hmmmm Got pics of the rifle. Maybe you should just sell it to me :)
Click to expand...



Haha, that'd be great and terrible at the same time... after all this work, I've become strangely attached to it, but it isn't mine to keep unless I pony up for it myself, which I'm not in the position to do at this time.
I really could use it too, can't hunt down here with anything bigger than a .270, which I'd also like but can't afford.
Send me a pm with a decent offer and I'll probably cry a little and sell it to you.
 
Last edited:
yodave said:
have you got a couple pieces you can spare to the OP so we can solve this mystery?? heck I'll even pay the shipping
Click to expand...

I haven't received the new brass yet, and all I have are fireformed Ackley 40 degree. I'll check if I might have a couple new ones, or hopefully I get the new ones from K C today or tomorrow.
 
Well, guess what? ? Got my dies and some regular .257 Roberts brass, and the brass fits with the bolt closed. Will have to get some pills for it, and work up a load and see what they turn into. Will update when I can.
 
Well, the plot seems to have thickened. Loaded up a few rounds last night, at the minimum powder load with some nosler 115 gr. Ballistic tip bullets. Fired 2 this morning at the range, and they definitely formed into something I don't have. I'd imagine these are the 28° Roberts Improved. They don't match either brass I currently have, and got lucky, as one split very slightly right at the shoulder.
Here's a pic with the improved brass on the left, the 2 Centre ones are the fireformed, and the right is the regular 257 Roberts brass, which I used to fireform the 2 middle ones.

20160515_142933.jpg


To me, they look to be a half way in between the 2 I have, possibly the 28 degree Roberts Improved?
Let me know what you think, I guess I could take some measurements of the length of the shoulder with my calipers and see if it matches up any of the stats on the improved brass from the book.

Here is an attempt at a view of the split in the one brass:

20160515_144330.jpg
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom