Holster use with striker fire pistols...

jakfrost

jakfrost

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Just wondering, watching some 'action shooting' at my small local range the other day, spring brings out lots of activities...and wondering if I was to get involved using my P320/Sig holster, would the lack of an external safety be an issue?
I am assuming the 'striker fire' guns have been around long enough to sort this out amongst the rule makers, but just wondering?
I know the gun is 'safe' but does everyone? The shooters were 'racking the slide', putting the safety on and holstering the gun before calling 'ready'...hence my question.
 
No issue, those putting on the safety were likely shooting either Standard class or Open class gun which are both single action. The 320 would shoot in Production division which is DA/SA so my Shadow even though it has one doesn't have the safety on, just hammer down so first pull is DA, striker fired guns are essentially DA every pull so no safety required.
 
jakfrost said:
Just wondering, watching some 'action shooting' at my small local range the other day, spring brings out lots of activities...and wondering if I was to get involved using my P320/Sig holster, would the lack of an external safety be an issue? I am assuming the 'striker fire' guns have been around long enough to sort this out amongst the rule makers, but just wondering? I know the gun is 'safe' but does everyone? The shooters were 'racking the slide', putting the safety on and holstering the gun before calling 'ready'...hence my question.
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Any real safety issue lies with the shooter, not the gun (or its manual safety, or lack of one). And more particularly, the trigger finger or anything else that might enter the trigger guard. A competent person who is familiar with the safe use of his firearm - in concert with the safe use of his holster - will be just as safe with a striker fired handgun as he would be with one that has multiple manual safeties.
 
CV32 said:
Any real safety issue lies with the shooter, not the gun (or its manual safety, or lack of one). And more particularly, the trigger finger or anything else that might enter the trigger guard. A competent person who is familiar with the safe use of his firearm - in concert with the safe use of his holster - will be just as safe with a striker fired handgun as he would be with one that has multiple manual safeties.
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All common sense...my question wasn't really "am I a safe shooter with my 320", but more about possible regulatory restrictions around striker fire guns in certain activities.
 
jakfrost said:
All common sense...my question wasn't really "am I a safe shooter with my 320", but more about possible regulatory restrictions around striker fire guns in certain activities.
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There is nothing regulatory in the sense of municipal, provincial or federal law as far as I am aware. If you shoot at an organized club or range, however, they may very well have rules regarding holster use. (I doubt it would have specific provisions regarding striker fired pistols). The same would be true of organized action shooting sports like IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, etc.
 
The tp9sa popped into my head as I was reading this thread. Its single action with no safety, only a decocker. How would it fit in with, say, IPSC competition rules? I am a nube so apologies if this seems like a stupid question.
 
Striker fired pistols in the form of Glock 17/34's and M&P FS/Pro dominate the three major pistol divisions at the IDPA US Nationals. as well as in major matches. No issues at all using them in that sport.

Tale Care

Bob
 
With guns such as M&P's, Glocks and other similar striker guns the only "safety" in in your head and how your head observes, feels and directs your body parts.

A big part of this head mounted safety is the early understanding that while you want to learn to draw fast that you also want to learn to ALWAYS holster your gun SLOWLY. Every time I see someone position their barrel nose and then snap their gun down into their holster with a Hollywood like flair of the dramatic I first cringe while waiting for the BANG! followed by advising them to slow down and feel for anything unusual. There's no prize for how fast you can get loaded up and holstered.

It's bad enough on guns with safeties that can be bumped off but it's doubly bad on guns with no safety. A trigger finger still in the guard or a loose belt or fold of shirt that gets wadded up and pulls the trigger during that last dramatic shove of the gun and suddenly we have a leaky leg.

Rule books aside learn to holster ANY style of handgun the right and safe way. And the right and safe ways are KNOW WHERE YOUR TRIGGER FINGER IS, HOLSTER SLOWLY and FEEL FOR ANYTHING DIFFERENT. I can't stress these three things enough while handling any gun that is going to be pointed at your hip, leg or feet. And often as not all three during a single holstering action.

Needless to say the "HOLSTER SLOWLY" and "FEEL FOR ANYTHING DIFFERENT" work hand in hand. The idea being that by holstering slowly you have time to react to feeling anything different and lift the gun back out so you can check for what made it feel odd. It's not a time to say to yourself "oh, it's nothing".

And it should go without saying that if you EVER feel the edge of your holster opening touch the BACK of your trigger finger that you need to stop, sit down and carefully consider what could have just happened if the gun were loaded and you'd used a big Hollywood Moment and rammed it home. This applies to practicing you do at home with your unloaded and cleared gun every bit as much as it does when there's a loaded mag and a round in the chamber. Just because you screw up like this during unloaded practice does not make it any more acceptable. Give yourself a severe beat down if you catch this happening at ANY time.

I offer all this not to scare you. Instead I hope it encourages you to simply stop and give the gun your undivided attention like any of us should while handling it when loaded or not.

Luckily this is the sort of stuff which is easy to practice at home. Practice racking the slide of an empty gun and then holster with focus on these three factors. Then draw the gun to some imaginary "BEEP!" and with that same focus on the trigger finger raise it up, meet your support hand and extend forward while putting your finger on the trigger and squeezing off the "CLICK!" while the gun is pointed out away from your feet by a good angle. Rack the slide again and repeat repeatedly.

A close second to your gun hand and holster is how you handle your support hand during the draw. Too many draw the gun and swing their support hand over in an arc and end up sweeping their support hand or arm with the gun. You Tube for "travis haley handgun grip" and watch and duplicate how he uses his support hand during a draw and fire. It comes up to mid chest and waits for the gun to rise up and moves out slightly to cover over his strong hand. This way we don't end up sweeping our support hand or arm.

While doing these drawing, clicking and reholstering drills if at any time you realize you just lost track of your trigger finger or support hand then you need to slow the pace back down. Fast to draw while still maintaining focus is a good thing. Slower to holster sounds lame but it really is a good thing. Keep up the practicing and don't ever let your pace outrun your attention on the safe and effective method.

All those crazy fast guys like Travis Haley and Jerry Miculek are doing these same things while going that fast. They just practiced more than you have. So don't try to outrun yourself. Go as fast as your sense of awareness will let you. And PUSH it by all means. But don't push faster than you can keep up with performing things correctly.
 
Thanks Bob.

I saw all those posts focused on rule books and laws and governing bodies and club exec boards and realized that the one important thing to a shooter wondering about using holsters was totally missed.
 
Why don't you start a thread with that post and I will see if I can get a mod to sticky the thread.

I know of two instances where legs have leaked due to failure to recognize the issues with "safe" action pistols.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Why don't you start a thread with that post and I will see if I can get a mod to sticky the thread.

I know of two instances where legs have leaked due to failure to recognize the issues with "safe" action pistols.

Take Care

Bob
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But with a sticky like this we wouldnt get a thread with hundreds of posts about how deadly a safety-less glock is! Lol
 
Suther said:
But with a sticky like this we wouldn't get a thread with hundreds of posts about how deadly a safety-less glock is! Lol
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Isn't that the truth. BCRider has written the best post yet why the striker fired guns like the Glock and M&P require special attention while drawing and holstering.

Since adding a 226 to my modest collection I have come to appreciate the decocker models aside from the fact it is deadly accurate and so easy to take down. We are fortunate to have such a wide selection of very good pistols to choose from. They can bite back though if you are not careful.

Take Care

Bob
 
To be fair to the striker gun crowd my procedure for hammer guns changes on only one aspect that I like to do in addition to the things mentioned in my post.

That being that on my hammer semis that start off with a hammer down and with a double action pull for the first shot and revolvers I put my strong hand thumb onto the hammer so I feel the hammer and monitor for any movement as an additional factor. The rest is just the same as the striker gun.

I've not shot cocked and locked single action guns enough yet to figure out if there's something other than setting the safety and then treating them as a striker gun.

I've "reported" my own post to the moderators asking them if they feel the message is worthy of a sticky. If they feel it is then I'll add in a bit about DA/SA hammer guns used for DA first shots from a hammer down starting position.

Whereever this goes thanks to all of you for the support and feedback on my efforts.
 
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