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bassman

bassman

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Had a first at the range today. I was shooting a few different handloads in my LH Abolt in .22 Hornet. Including my previous single shot Hornet, I've been loading this cartridge for probably close to 2 years. By no means am I a Hornet loading expert but I do have a few hundred rounds under my belt without any issues whatsoever and have been handloading numerous other cartridges for over 15 years.

Today, I shot loads with the following bullets-

-30 gr TNT Green HP
-35 gr Vmax
-40 gr Vmax
-40 gr Varmageddon HP

These were my first loads in the Browning using the Nosler Varmageddons but have loaded/shot the others and various other bullets regularly. When loading the Varmageddons into the magazine box, I noticed the bullets were slipping into the case...I checked them all and found 3/5 were loose with very little neck tension. I pulled the bullets out with my fingertips to the same OAL as the 2 good ones and shot them off as singles.

I've never had tension issues with any other Hornet handload in 2 years. I use Lee collet dies, again never any issues with any loads with these dies. I haven't investigated yet but is it possible that Nosler made a bad batch of undersized Varmageddons? Anyone else have a similar issue with a specific bullet?
 
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The collet dies are pressure sensitive , wonder if there is wear starting to happen or maybe your consistency on the press arm?? That is where I found neck tension variance was in my pressure applied to the press, with these dies.

Pretty easy to measure projectiles and compare for diameter to rule them out.
 
One thing that I have noticed about Nosler bullets (at least the ones I have used) is that they are consistently .0005" undersized. I noticed this years ago when I was playing around with neck tension and stumbled across the same thing the OP has. Always found it odd that I've never heard or read anyone else with the same observation.

Rooster
 
Usually if someone has an observation, or finds a problem with someone elses favorite, or a set of circumstances where tolerances stacked against him and dares to mention it, he'll get shouted down by someone who would need a co-signer to buy his primers.

I've had neck tension problems many times. Some of them were with collet dies and can be addressed with the instructions that came with it. Annealling and turning down the mandrel are a couple to try.

Different bullets can sneak up and blindside you with a loose fit seemingly out of the blue. Years back I had a streak Of loose fitting TSXs in .257, 7mm, 375 and 416 that wanted to fall into the cases. Mic them up and they were actually over sized on the bottom and smaller up top. Reducing expander ball fixed it.

I've been loading STWs since the eighties yet the other day I had to change the bushing to get a grip on some LR Accubonds. I'd loaded that bullet in that box of brass on the last loading and all of a sudden the neck tension disappeared ? Other bullets hold. Just happened to be at about the same time my .338 Edge decided to grab SMKs and slip 300 grain Berger elite hunters. Slight taper in the bullets, start harder when seating then go way to easy. New bushing came today, problem fixed. These things happen.
 
Dogleg said:
Usually if someone has an observation, or finds a problem with someone elses favorite, or a set of circumstances where tolerances stacked against him and dares to mention it, he'll get shouted down by someone who would need a co-signer to buy his primers.

I've had neck tension problems many times. Some of them were with collet dies and can be addressed with the instructions that came with it. Annealling and turning down the mandrel are a couple to try.

Different bullets can sneak up and blindside you with a loose fit seemingly out of the blue. Years back I had a streak Of loose fitting TSXs in .257, 7mm, 375 and 416 that wanted to fall into the cases. Mic them up and they were actually over sized on the bottom and smaller up top. Reducing expander ball fixed it.

I've been loading STWs since the eighties yet the other day I had to change the bushing to get a grip on some LR Accubonds. I'd loaded that bullet in that box of brass on the last loading and all of a sudden the neck tension disappeared ? Other bullets hold. Just happened to be at about the same time my .338 Edge decided to grab SMKs and slip 300 grain Berger elite hunters. Slight taper in the bullets, start harder when seating then go way to easy. New bushing came today, problem fixed. These things happen.
Click to expand...

You lost me on the first paragraph but as for the rest, I only have a few hundred rounds loaded on this die set with different bullets from different manufacturers. Not a single issue with any, then I try a new bullet and 3/5 slip but more loaded after the loose ones with different bullets are fine. Doesn't sound like a die issue to me. I suspect the Noslers will be a wee bit undersized and I certainly won't be doing any alterations to the dies just to make these bullets work.

Hoping to get some measurements on the Varmageddons tonight when I get home. Thanks to all for your input.
 
Last night I measured some Nosler .243 bullets and they were .2428 which might be getting nitpicky. If you want to get more involved you need to pick up some measuring tools, vernier calipers would be the first step. Next the case necks get harder every time you fire the cartridge and the neck springs back more after sizing. You can try a standard full or neck resizing die as this will reduce the neck diameter more or get/make smaller mandrels for your collet die.

I prefer using Forster full length benchrest dies with their high mounted floating expander for reducing neck runout.

Forster Bench Rest 2-Die Set 22 Hornet

http://ads.midwayusa.com/product/376411/forster-bench-rest-2-die-set-22-hornet
 
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I e never had a problem with tension . I have 1 Type S die for 308 & 300 win mag also I purchased a custom National a match die from Forster for my M14 and Garand which I had honed to a spec for the brass I'm using with a .305 expander. The key is to try and use the same manufactor brass and bullets. Also measuring tools are key. Finally if you can anneal that will help a whole lot
 
358Rooster said:
One thing that I have noticed about Nosler bullets (at least the ones I have used) is that they are consistently .0005" undersized. I noticed this years ago when I was playing around with neck tension and stumbled across the same thing the OP has. Always found it odd that I've never heard or read anyone else with the same observation.

Rooster
Click to expand...

I haven't found Nosler bullets that much undersize, most are actually quite close to what they are supposed to measure.
 
So I checked a bunch of the Noslers last night and over 80% measured out at .223". The rest were .2235" with a couple at .224".

I measured the 35 and 40 grain Hornady bullets as well as some 30 and 33 gr Speers and these all measured out to .224" with a few at .2245".

I don't think this is a die issue or issues with case neck sizing or annealing. It only happens with the Nosler bullets. EVERY other non-Nosler bullet tried to this point has shown acceptable neck tension with the same dies.
 
Dogleg said:
Lee will sell you an undersized mandrel for 5 bucks. It's a routine thing.
Click to expand...

But the dies work great on any non Nosler bullet that I've tried. I'm not interested in an undersized mandrel or any other die mods just to make a box of Nosler bullets work lol. And that $5 turns into $30 pretty quickly once you pay exchange, shipping, duty etc. Not worth it, I'll continue to shoot Hornady bullets that seem to be made to spec rather than being undersized like the Noslers.
 
PitBull1973 said:
I e never had a problem with tension . I have 1 Type S die for 308 & 300 win mag also I purchased a custom National a match die from Forster for my M14 and Garand which I had honed to a spec for the brass I'm using with a .305 expander. The key is to try and use the same manufactor brass and bullets. Also measuring tools are key. Finally if you can anneal that will help a whole lot
Click to expand...

I too have never had an issue with neck tension, until I bought and loaded these Nosler Varmageddon bullets.
 
Dogleg said:
Mic them up and they were actually over sized on the bottom and smaller up top. Reducing expander ball fixed it.
Click to expand...

Happened on many occasions, especially with bulk bullets. Sometimes the bottom was so oversized, that I had to resize the bullets. ;) About 2k of them.

Polishing the expander ball or mandrel chucked in drill or drill-press with sand paper always worked for me too.

s>
 
22 Hornet?
Back in the day i loaded for one - had to always be aware of the .223 or .224 bullets as my dies were for original .223 bullet diameter, as was the rifle. Now i understand you can get both?
A mixup in either would create or negate neck tension
 
Dogleg said:
I can only tell you how to fix your problem, what you do after that is up to you.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem, I'm not searching for a fix. I've come across a situation with one particular bullet. I've asked if any others have had the same issue. If I was looking for a fix, it would obviously be to stop loading the undersized Nosler bullets. EVERY other .224" bullet tried works great. It is not a die problem.
 
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bassman said:
The fix is to not use the undersized Nosler bullet. EVERY other bullet tried works great. It is not a die problem.
Click to expand...


The problem could be just as easily be interpreted as a specialty die meeting the limits of its design. This is borne out by the simple existance of manufacturer provided undersized mandrills and instructions for making your own. One size doesn't fit all, all the time. Conventional dies are more forgiving.
Line
 
One should have 2 thou neck tension for most hunting cartridges, what you have run into is likely a situation where the Nosler bullets were designed to be 223 which was the old Hornet bore diameter and one will find that if the bullet box is marked Hornet they may well be 223 dia and not 224. However this is not 100% either but is accurate in some cases. I have been loading for Hornets for more than 30 years and I have found them to have many little annoying eccentricities that don't plague other cartridges.......the 223/224 bullet anomaly being just one of them. The necks are also so thin that there is significant variances from one maker to another, these show up specifically when using a collet die but doesn't seem to rear it's ugly head when using standard full length dies as the internal neck diameter is determined by the expander button and the standard FL dies always size the neck several thou smaller than required and as stated relies on the expander button to size the inside of the neck. The thin brass at the neck also work hardens much faster than thicker brass does so it will spring back more each time it is loaded, and will produce the exact situation that you are experiencing when using collet dies. I personally would buy a 2 thou smaller collet/mandrel and anneal my case necks........or you can just do what I do and use RCBS FL die set.
Another annoying eccentricity of the Hornet is their super sensitivity to different primers, mine doesn't even like BR 4s but after a bit of advice from another long time Hornet shooter on CGN, I have been using Rem 6 1/2s which work much better with smaller groups and better consistency. Rim thickness also varies considerably from one manufacturer to another and even from year to year with the same make of brass. You will also find much greater headspace anomalies with different makes of rifles and different years again.........welcome to the world of the Hornet.
 
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Guys- let's just shut down this thread. While I appreciate the input and the suggested solutions to my 'problem', I don't actually have a Hornet or a die problem. Having loaded a dozen different bullets in this cartridge with the same die set, I have simply run into a batch of slightly undersized Nosler Varmageddon bullets. No, they are not .223" Hornet bullets. No, I have no plans to modify or change out my existing dies. THE BULLETS ARE TOO SMALL COMPARED TO ALL THE OTHER BULLETS USED OVER THE LAST 2 YEARS.

This thread was simply an FYI thread and I was seeking out whether or not others had the same issue with this particular bullet or any other specific bullet. I measured a sample of the ill-fitting bullets as well as numerous others and found the Noslers to be slightly undersized compared to all of the others. This is not a die issue.
 
So you want the posting deleted and not have information spread around about the smaller diameter bullets and end your FYI.

In todays world of high finance and company profits, quality control suffers.

So do not take it personal about the replies in any forum, you are still the one pulling the handle of your press and get to do it your way.
 
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