Another update to my land issues... Several people charged with various offences

Arclight, I suggest you make detailed notes of your observations, including person descriptions, vehicle descriptions, licence plates, extent of damage etc..
Take photos of the cut lock, opened gate, removed and/damaged signs and anything else in relation to the events.
If the accused was charged criminal or provincial, you will most likely be called for court as a witness.
 
PEKS said:
Arclight, I suggest you make detailed notes of your observations, including person descriptions, vehicle descriptions, licence plates, extent of damage etc..
Take photos of the cut lock, opened gate, removed and/damaged signs and anything else in relation to the events.
If the accused was charged criminal or provincial, you will most likely be called for court as a witness.
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I do take notes and photos. The cop said that I would not likely be called to court as he was the one laying the charges. But the slim possibility existed. He figures the other 2 with trespassing tickets will simply pay the fine. The guy with the firearms charges will go to trial for sure.
 
It is extremely stressful to have to deal with these issues. I would not resort to arresting lightly. The problem is that the cops can't be everywhere at once. I updated the MNR officer for the area this morning. He will touch base with the OPP and may lay charges under the conservation act.
 
How big is this place? It seems like if you and your wife, selected locals, any cop that wants to hunt are all going to be there you might want to put a McDonalds and a Timmies in there too.

I've had trouble with locals too. The most common seems to be tearing down signs, usually right after they are put up or at the first approach of hunting seasons. I'm convinced that they just tear them down to see if they get put back up again. If not, then they can play dumb if caught. If they are replaced quickly then they know that you are around often. The record was my signs being torn off the same day I put them up. Put new ones up in the morning and those stayed up. Didn't stop people from trespassing though.

The most puzzling case was a hunting trespasser pulling one of my legally placed traps and reporting me to the wardens for trapping on my own land. When I asked when he was going to be charged I got a change of subject to how he (the Warden) snapped one of my marten traps to see how long it took me to reset it. That requires him to come back every day to check. It also turns out he liked my cabin and had been in it too. Tampering with traps is illegal no matter who does it, and it takes a special kind of idiot to enter a dwelling. Maybe I should get a Timmie's franchise too? Lemons into lemonade.
 
Arclight said:
I know. It will be hard. I now pack handcuffs in my pack incase I run in to trespassers. Sooner or later the idiots will move on to greener pastures.
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Trespassing to Hunt and simple Trespass to Property are provincial summary conviction offences. I wouldn't be handcuffing anybody. As a property owner,all you can do is tell them to leave and if they don't,call the Police or a CO. Most people know that and if you try to physically arrest someone without "color of right",they're legally allowed to resist with as much force as necessary to stop an assault or forcible confinement. You're out there with them and alone. You may be dealing with some pretty nasty characters that have no qualms about leaving someone three quarters beaten to death laying in the bush where there's no witnesses. You need a big re-think.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
As a property owner,all you can do is tell them to leave and if they don't,call the Police or a CO. Most people know that and if you try to physically arrest someone without "color of right",they're legally allowed to resist with as much force as necessary to stop an assault or forcible confinement. You're out there with them and alone. You may be dealing with some pretty nasty characters that have no qualms about leaving someone three quarters beaten to death laying in the bush where there's no witnesses. You need a big re-think.
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That is not true if they will not leave you as the owner can use as much force as necessary to make them:

Defence — property

35 (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if

(a) they either believe on reasonable grounds that they are in peaceable possession of property or are acting under the authority of, or lawfully assisting, a person whom they believe on reasonable grounds is in peaceable possession of property;
(b) they believe on reasonable grounds that another person
(i) is about to enter, is entering or has entered the property without being entitled by law to do so,
(ii) is about to take the property, is doing so or has just done so, or
(iii) is about to damage or destroy the property, or make it inoperative, or is doing so;
(c) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of
(i) preventing the other person from entering the property, or removing that person from the property, or
(ii) preventing the other person from taking, damaging or destroying the property or from making it inoperative, or retaking the property from that person; and
(d) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.
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http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-6.html#h-10

And the tresspasser is in fact not allowed to resist with as much force as necessary:

No defence

(3) Subsection (1) does not apply if the force is used or threatened by another person for the purpose of doing something that they are required or authorized by law to do in the administration or enforcement of the law, unless the person who commits the act that constitutes the offence believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is acting unlawfully.
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http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-6.html#h-10

As the land owner is doing something they are authorized by law to do

The land owner can not prevent them from leaving but he can remove then if they do not.

Shawn
 
shawn said:
That is not true if they will not leave you as the owner can use as much force as necessary to make them:



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-6.html#h-10

And the tresspasser is in fact not allowed to resist with as much force as necessary:



http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-6.html#h-10

As the land owner is doing something they are authorized by law to do

The land owner can not prevent them from leaving but he can remove then if they do not.

Shawn
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I hear you,Shawn,and I don't necessarily disagree,but,I sure know that if you're not a policeman and you make one mistake,kiss your house goodbye when the "trespassers" lawyer gets done with you. Too many things can go wrong to fast. Unless it was for a major serious crime being committed where fast decisive action was needed,there's no way in hell I would try to forcibly arrest and hand cuff someone over something like simple trespassing.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
I hear you,Shawn,and I don't necessarily disagree,but,I sure know that if you're not a policeman and you make one mistake,kiss your house goodbye when the "trespassers" lawyer gets done with you. Too many things can go wrong to fast. Unless it was for a major serious crime being committed where fast decisive action was needed,there's no way in hell I would try to forcibly arrest and hand cuff someone over something like simple trespassing.
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Which is fine

But that is not what you posted. You said it was illegal for the home owner to do anything but call the police and the trespassers could legally use as much for as necessary to resist, which is wrong. What you choose to do or feel is prudent does not make that decision what the law says.

Shawn
 
My friends hunting cabin that I go to is south of Bancroft and we always see the locals with their camping chairs along the roads waiting for deer to cross
 
I'm glad the cops helped you out, but the last thing I would do, is encourage extra police presence if it was my land. But that's just me.

I think I'd be more inclined to put up razor wire, landmines and such...

FWIW, I was just notified last weekend, that my shed at the golf course was broken into. I had to spend 3 hours pissing around, cleaning up after the thieves had ransacked my shed.

Then taking measures to make it more difficult for the bastards to break in again.

So I've kind of a thin skin on these types of scumbags.

Too bad we have a legal system and not a justice system...
 
shawn said:
Which is fine

But that is not what you posted. You said it was illegal for the home owner to do anything but call the police and the trespassers could legally use as much for as necessary to resist, which is wrong. What you choose to do or feel is prudent does not make that decision what the law says.

Shawn
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Nope,I said land owner,not home owner. There's a clear distinction in law where protection of property of a home is held to a much higher standard by the courts. Invade someone's home and all bets are off. We can still use deadly force with a home invasion under certain circumstances for that matter. To use assault and/or forcible confinement to remove a trespasser,good luck with that.
 
Trimmer 905 said:
Nope,I said land owner,not home owner. There's a clear distinction in law where protection of property of a home is held to a much higher standard by the courts. Invade someone's home and all bets are off. We can still use deadly force with a home invasion under certain circumstances for that matter. To use assault and/or forcible confinement to remove a trespasser,good luck with that.
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Sorry but you are wrong

The law was posted above.

You are right you did say land owner, but its irrelevant either way you are incorrect.

Shawn
 
shawn said:
Sorry but you are wrong

The law was posted above.

You are right you did say land owner, but its irrelevant either way you are incorrect.

Shawn
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Why do you insist on floating around the site posting laws as if you are some sort of expert and have "***NOT INTENDED AS LEGAL ADVICE***" in your sig line? It's somewhat obnoxious..... Kind of like the kid in school that eggs other kids on to get themselves in trouble then sits back and waits for the results.....

Your quote may be a direct quote of a law, but any use of force in Canada is subject to be judged in court as being "reasonable" or unreasonable...... Surely as a gun owner who lives to talk law smack you are aware of all of the precedents no?.....
 
Superbrad said:
Your quote may be a direct quote of a law, but any use of force in Canada is subject to be judged in court as being "reasonable" or unreasonable...... Surely as a gun owner who lives to talk law smack you are aware of all of the precedents no?.....
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A lot of them yes, I am trained in use of force in Canada and have used it professionally. Can you say the same?

Or are you all "talk"

It is not my fault that people spout off about things they know nothing about or parrot BS they here on CGN, the gun store or where ever as fact.

Shawn
 
As a matter of fact I am...... And not for mall cop purposes either.....

So, since you are trained in use of force, surely you can see that encouraging someone to use force to extricate individuals from their property without proper training is irresponsible and can lead to getting them in a lot of trouble....... But that's ok, I am sure your sig line will have you covered......


shawn said:
A lot of them yes, I am trained in use of force in Canada and have used it professionally. Can you say the same?

Or are you all "talk"

It is not my fault that people spout off about things they know nothing about or parrot BS they here on CGN, the gun store or where ever as fact.

Shawn
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Superbrad said:
As a matter of fact I am...... And not for mall cop purposes either.....

So, since you are trained in use of force, surely you can see that encouraging someone to use force to extricate individuals from their property without proper training is irresponsible and can lead to getting them in a lot of trouble....... But that's ok, I am sure your sig line will have you covered......
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I didn't encourage anyone to do anything

I told the guy that said to do anything other than call the police was illegal, what the law is.

Shawn
 
Dig some deep holes cover them in leaves , if you find someone in A hole ask why they're hunting out of your "ground" blind :)
 
Of course you didn't...... You merely pointed them in a direction, acted as if they were covered by directly quoting law and left it for them to execute and suffer the repercussions...... It's what your type always does.......
 
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