Nightforce vs Schmidt and Bender vs Vortex vs US Optics

bsand said:
I don't own a terrapin and I'm not going to buy a ####ty one. My shooting spot has 8" steel beams to range off, so it's quick and easy using what I've already got.

Your lrf won't help you measure out corrections either. So if you have to choose lrf or ranging reticle id go reticle for that reason alone.
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A ranging reticle may work at your spot with 8" beams but doesn't work ANYWHERE in the field. For a ranging reticle to be accurate, you need either the target dimensions or reverse, the range to get your target dimensions. Good luck using that reticle at any UKD.
I would take any POS rangefinder over trying to accurately range past 500m.
 
Shibby! said:
I too have a tough time holding the Swarovski steady. I also find pushing the button adds unecessary wiggle to your hold. I generally mount it to my tri-pod (used as a monopod) and it easily ranges 500+y further by holding it steady. Background does affect results.

1300m? Childs play with the 50cal. =)

Kidding. Sounds like fun. Steiner makes nice scopes too. Lots of less common options out there like March, Steiner, etc.
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This was my solution to not being able to hold the RF steady enough. You can't co-witness the RF and spotter with this mount but it's close enough. It was $60 opposed to the Ashbury Precision that you can co-witness for $700ish I believe.
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ivo said:
A ranging reticle may work at your spot with 8" beams but doesn't work ANYWHERE in the field. For a ranging reticle to be accurate, you need either the target dimensions or reverse, the range to get your target dimensions. Good luck using that reticle at any UKD.
I would take any POS rangefinder over trying to accurately range past 500m.
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Well I shoot steel 2/3 idpa 12x20 aint gonna change size. In all my shooting I know my target size. So ukd wouldn't be a big deal for me.
I way rather have a mil hash reticle and no LRF than a duplex reticle and a LRF.
 
There are lots of known dimension things in this world - torso of an average mans chest, torso of an average deer, torso of an average moose, etc, etc. Is that not how the pro's are trained to reticle range??

It's not right for F-class or BR, but for PRS comps, or real sniping, it's "accurate enough". The 2000yd shots are never 1st shot kills anyway......
 
ivo said:
A ranging reticle may work at your spot with 8" beams but doesn't work ANYWHERE in the field. For a ranging reticle to be accurate, you need either the target dimensions or reverse, the range to get your target dimensions. Good luck using that reticle at any UKD.
I would take any POS rangefinder over trying to accurately range past 500m.
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Who are you to question Bsand? He's been shooting LR for a year now....
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
There are lots of known dimension things in this world - torso of an average mans chest, torso of an average deer, torso of an average moose, etc, etc. Is that not how the pro's are trained to reticle range??

It's not right for F-class or BR, but for PRS comps, or real sniping, it's "accurate enough". The 2000yd shots are never 1st shot kills anyway......
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Shot. Craig Harrison connected with # 2. Carlos might have on the first, I'll check my books when get home.
 
bsand said:
I've been shooting LR for about 8 months.
I think I've come pretty far since that match in Nanaimo last October.
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It's not a slight against your shooting. In fact I commend you in your pursuit to get better as well as actually getting out and using your gear and shooting in matches. Kudos!
It's more the fact that a pretty big chip must be resting on your shoulders when you can reply so matter of fact on things you have minimal experience on.
 
marcoman said:
It's not a slight against your shooting. In fact I commend you in your pursuit to get better as well as actually getting out and using your gear and shooting in matches. Kudos!
It's more the fact that a pretty big chip must be resting on your shoulders when you can reply so matter of fact on things you have minimal experience on.
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He's probably shot more in the last 8 months that most of us (myself included) have in the last 2 years.....
 
marcoman said:
It's not a slight against your shooting. In fact I commend you in your pursuit to get better as well as actually getting out and using your gear and shooting in matches. Kudos!
It's more the fact that a pretty big chip must be resting on your shoulders when you can reply so matter of fact on things you have minimal experience on.
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I don't know where you are getting "matter of fact" from. I post my opinion from my experience, that's kinda the idea behind forums. People share experiences and opinions to create discussion. I'm sorry that my opinions and minimal experience offend you.
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
There are lots of known dimension things in this world - torso of an average mans chest, torso of an average deer, torso of an average moose, etc, etc. Is that not how the pro's are trained to reticle range??

It's not right for F-class or BR, but for PRS comps, or real sniping, it's "accurate enough". The 2000yd shots are never 1st shot kills anyway......
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For deer, moose or PRS at 700m...what is the average and how close is "close enough". An ethical kill is not taking the front leg off if you overestimate the chest size of a deer. In PRS, if you don't know the size of the plate/target, how do you range it?
I'm not trying to argue rather state I'd much prefer a RF over a ranging reticle any day.
 
bsand said:
Well I shoot steel 2/3 idpa 12x20 aint gonna change size. In all my shooting I know my target size. So ukd wouldn't be a big deal for me.
I way rather have a mil hash reticle and no LRF than a duplex reticle and a LRF.
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So what do you do at UKD and unknown target size?
Just asking.
 
ivo said:
For deer, moose or PRS at 700m...what is the average and how close is "close enough". An ethical kill is not taking the front leg off if you overestimate the chest size of a deer. In PRS, if you don't know the size of the plate/target, how do you range it?
I'm not trying to argue rather state I'd much prefer a RF over a ranging reticle any day.
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I would too, 100%, and I do. We're on the same boat here. I shoot laser beams all over hell.

I just stated that based on my reading of what's been done historically. I'm no wizard, nor am I an old grizzled vet.
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
Would be cool to know.

I know Furlong's was 4-6 shots, and I think the Brit took a few too.
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The Brit (Craig Harrison) hit with the second shot.

I can't find my book with detailed account of the Gunny's record .50 shot (I recently moved).
 
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Based on my experience I will take a LRF every day of the week over reliance on a ranging reticle which is, of course, better than a simple crosshair or similar. I can see that using a reticle is a good skill to practice but for most of us who like to shoot LR the investment into a quality LRF is very worthwhile.
 
ivo said:
In PRS, if you don't know the size of the plate/target, how do you range it?

I'm not trying to argue rather state I'd much prefer a RF over a ranging reticle any day.
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You don't see those stages in matches very often these days. Its not expected that the shooter will make a first round hit on those stages. Quite the opposite. They are meant to test the shooter's ability to spot their shots and correct, which is a core skill even in the known distance matches most PRS matches are. UKD with unknown size or range-of-size targets were more common in US matches before the PRS was formed and were used to demonstrate the folly of thinking in linear units (inches or cm) instead of using the reticle. You can only really do them in a field match where you can keep the shooters from ranging the targets while others shoot or from communicating with each other. Limited places where you can do that, and its not feasible with the large number of shooters in many of the matches you see these days.

There is a PRS match that will have UKD targets in the fall in Kentucky: https://www.facebook.com/PracticalPrecisionRifleChallenge/

The MD is a recently retired SOF sniper. The match is limited to 80 shooters to be able to do it right.

Not sure if he will have unknown target size, but I would expect him to have things like targets on sticks out in the open where the over-reliance people have on LRFs will cost them points when they don't get readings or pick up things way in back of the target instead of the target itself, or time out trying to transition back and forth between the rifle and the LRF. Sometimes the reticle just is the better tool for the situation...

More often than not, you'll just be using the reticle instead of the turrets or in conjunction with them. I just got back from the K&M Kahles PRS match. They had a stage where we had to shoot 5 targets between 700 and 1200 yards in 60 seconds. Only one shot on each, and after your first shot you got DQ'd if you touched your scope again. Quite a few guys cleaned the stage... kinda required a reticle. Many stage required transitioning between different distance in a very short time that would not allow for turret adjustments.
 
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