Nightforce vs Schmidt and Bender vs Vortex vs US Optics

torontogungal said:
My post was written at the end of a very trying day.
One of those days that puts you at odds with the rest of the world.
Truthfully even a high end Leupold puts paws old K4 to shame (don't tell him I said so).
But like paw the K4 scope and the Marlin it is mounted on is old so that makes it better in his weary old eyes even if it isn't.
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I'll say that your gun is a fine gun, scopes good too, just not the same as what we're talking about.

A dead deer is a dead deer.
 
chrisward3 said:
There's two ways to look at it:

If cost is not that much of a concern, my thought when I bought the LT was "its better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it".

The second was I bought the H59, so if I was relying on pure holds, then locking the turrets would avoid any chance of the turrets running away in between shoots and stages. Sure I can visually check before each engagement, but this offers a little peace of mind.

Ultimately, its your preference...and your nuts won't fall off because you bought a S&B with or without any of the options offered. If you are going to buy a few of these, then get the reticles and features suited best to what each gun is intended for. If you are buying only one (like me), get all the bells and whistles and choose how and when you use these features.

Not sure where you're located, but if you're in SE Ontario then we can definitely meet up and check it out.
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I may take up your offer. PM sent
 
So this thread is discussing the minutiae of optics around and north of $4000.00 and then we find out that folks aren't even using their scopes to range? In fact questions are being asked about how to range with a scope even.

I'd suggest that anyone who really wants to shoot long range but doesn't know if the activity is gonna stick should hop aboard in the mid level scope market. If you don't like the activity or you do and you want to move up you can sell your scope and lose a few hundred dollars. This level of scope will allow you to shoot out to several hundred yards and also be the platform that you can learn all of the necessary skills on such as ranging. Once you are a champ and you realise that you like this activity you can buy up to the best and do so knowing exactly what is important to you in a scope not what is important to others.

I understand the the pleasure in owning fine objects but...
 
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Your suggested is noted, and put in the same spot as the suggestions that we don't need our convertible or our acreage or our nice home.

I know how to range. I can't range in 1 second like a pro, but I know the theory, and I can do it in 10-15 seconds. Give me a week of practice (if I cared) and I'll be able to do it in a second.

I like my high end scopes and high end rifles and high end home brewery. I have no interest in dying with $10M in the bank for our offspring to bicker over. Others may disagree, but I'm in this life to enjoy the time I have here, not fund someone else's.

Could I enjoy it with a Vortex PST?? Yup - I have them, and they're great, but I LOVE my S&B and NF.

GGG
 
I understand your position completely GGG and certainly have no say over how you spend your money or what makes you happy! Just pointing out another potential path is all...
 
fdc said:
So this thread is discussing the minutiae of optics around and north of $4000.00 and then we find out that folks aren't even using their scopes to range? In fact questions are being asked about how to range with a scope even.

I'd suggest that anyone who really wants to shoot long range but doesn't know if the activity is gonna stick should hop aboard in the mid level scope market. If you don't like the activity or you do and you want to move up you can sell your scope and lose a few hundred dollars. This level of scope will allow you to shoot out to several hundred yards and also be the platform that you can learn all of the necessary skills on such as ranging. Once you are a champ and you realise that you like this activity you can buy up to the best and do so knowing exactly what is important to you in a scope not what is important to others.

I understand the the pleasure in owning fine objects but...
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Thats what I did, kinda wish I just went straight for the TT... Went from a zeiss to a sb then luckily found a tangent theta. Lost about a thousand just going between optics, all in 6 months.

Ranging w/ reticle only works when you know your target size. Pretty simple formula, size of target in inches x 25.3/ size in mils = meters. Hard part is getting your mil estimation right, I've been able to get within 50m majority of the time. It helps to know your reticle and corresponding distances between hashmarks. With these scopes you can easily see past 600m with ease, the low light capabilities are pretty awesome too.
 
fdc said:
I understand your position completely GGG and certainly have no say over how you spend your money or what makes you happy! Just pointing out another potential path is all...
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Fair enough.

I'll admit I don't alway spend it the wisest.....but DAMN I like my scopes!!
 
bsand said:
Thats what I did, kinda wish I just went straight for the TT... Went from a zeiss to a sb then luckily found a tangent theta. Lost about a thousand just going between optics, all in 6 months.

Ranging w/ reticle only works when you know your target size. Pretty simple formula, size of target in inches x 25.3/ size in mils = meters. Hard part is getting your mil estimation right, I've been able to get within 50m majority of the time. It helps to know your reticle and corresponding distances between hashmarks. With these scopes you can easily see past 600m with ease, the low light capabilities are pretty awesome too.
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A time came about 5 years ago where I started saying "just f-Ing buy it. You're gonna regret it and/or end up trading up and losing money in the process....."

If I can't afford it at the time, I don't buy it - hence no airplane, yet.
 
All this talk about ranging with a reticle would have been relevant 20-30 years ago but why would anyone use a scope reticle to range a target when we have laser rangefinders accurate to within a few yards at 1 mile. Also, the size of the target has to be known dead on to make the reticle method of any use. It is much easier and much more ACCURATE to use a laser rangefinder.
 
Canuck525 said:
All this talk about ranging with a reticle would have been relevant 20-30 years ago but why would anyone use a scope reticle to range a target when we have laser rangefinders accurate to within a few yards at 1 mile. Also, the size of the target has to be known dead on to make the reticle method of any use. It is much easier and much more ACCURATE to use a laser rangefinder.
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I don't own a terrapin and I'm not going to buy a ####ty one. My shooting spot has 8" steel beams to range off, so it's quick and easy using what I've already got.

Your lrf won't help you measure out corrections either. So if you have to choose lrf or ranging reticle id go reticle for that reason alone.
 
Canuck525 said:
All this talk about ranging with a reticle would have been relevant 20-30 years ago but why would anyone use a scope reticle to range a target when we have laser rangefinders accurate to within a few yards at 1 mile. Also, the size of the target has to be known dead on to make the reticle method of any use. It is much easier and much more ACCURATE to use a laser rangefinder.
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I tend to agree.

It seems to me to be like flying IFR using NDB's and VOR's....when your GPS screen is right there..... It's becoming a historical skill.

My Leica 1600 is quite good, and 1/4 the price of a terrapin.
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
My Leica 1600 is quite good, and 1/4 the price of a terrapin.
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Since we're talking about premium equipment here. The Leica 1600 is nowhere near a Terrapin, which is the lowest of professional gear.

Not that I need to, but if I had big boomers I'd really regret not buying one when they stopped selling them. Thankfully my guns run out of steam around or slightly past the range of my swarovski. Still wish I had one of these in my kit but they have only gone up in price.
 
Shibby! said:
Since we're talking about premium equipment here. The Leica 1600 is nowhere near a Terrapin, which is the lowest of professional gear.

Not that I need to, but if I had big boomers I'd really regret not buying one when they stopped selling them. Thankfully my guns run out of steam around or slightly past the range of my swarovski. Still wish I had one of these in my kit but they have only gone up in price.
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I wish I had one too. My buddy does, and it's great.

My Leica is "good enough" for me. I can range to 12-1500 yards reliably, and accurately, and it was 800$.
 
I know Steiner's aren't getting much love in this thread, and there is some really serious competition (Nightforce, S&B, TT etc), but I took mine out to 1,330m in the pissing rain and it was crystal clear throughout the mag range. Even maxed out at 25x, the paralax adjustment got the gong appearing cyrstal clear and focused despite the weather. My Bushy XRS and my buddy's HDMR performed wonderfully as well, but at max mag, the target just didn't appear as clear as it did through the Steiner.

Lol, I couldn't hit the target for $hit at 1,330m because the wind was a little stupid, but it was a good test for tracking. We had gongs set up at 1,000m and 1,330m and elevation was dead to rights accurate and repeatable for elevation. A few weeks prior, we got rounds on steel at 500m and 750m (zero wind that weekend) on the first shot. For the future, we just need to put someone with alot more skill (especially in the wind reading department) than me behind the rifle, but if the weather is co-operating next time, we'll set up for 1,600m.

I like the color too, though not a perfect match.

https://2.bp.########.com/-iFFboPsl3jY/V0N5BcHWrpI/AAAAAAAAiFw/OF-M9dMB8RcovBhOd4lzwbnh4gQEHuvJwCKgB/s320/P5225254.JPG

https://1.bp.########.com/-ThmYeNCfYvs/VvIQAVHhW2I/AAAAAAAAhpk/tFYPxHjKzY05iZlW3qZCNrKTPC0KBLczQ/s320/P3222715.JPG

https://2.bp.########.com/-97MU8Va8Lg0/VvIQBiik1MI/AAAAAAAAhpk/8I6cK3YxTTgtPJDy6ZmcQTtKvNYbmVZeg/s1600/P3222716.JPG
 
Gunneegoogoo said:
I tend to agree.

It seems to me to be like flying IFR using NDB's and VOR's....when your GPS screen is right there..... It's becoming a historical skill.

My Leica 1600 is quite good, and 1/4 the price of a terrapin.
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I've been looking at the sig kilo, just waiting for them to come up north. More than enough LRF for 308 win.



Mr Donut, want to compare your steiner with my TT? Send me a PM, I'd like to see the differences side by side.
 
bsand said:
I've been looking at the sig kilo, just waiting for them to come up north. More than enough LRF for 308 win.



Mr Donut, want to compare your steiner with my TT? Send me a PM, I'd like to see the differences side by side.
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I just saw those Sig Kilos, apparently Savinglots.com has them for $399USD and they ship to Canada. Someone posted in another thread that to his door, it was $570 CAD plus about $75 duty.

I'm using the Bushnell G-Force 1300 ARC and in the city, it pings off buildings and other hard objects at it's advertised maximum range. In the bush, it's hard to get readings off trees and dirt/grassy hills beyond 750m. I've gotten lucky a few times and got positive readings at 980 in Squamish, so I know it works, but you will probably have to have it on a tripod or something very solid:

http://4.bp.########.com/-9Ih_--qZwVs/VWvrki0LsdI/AAAAAAAAXZo/No-N6ga2YKc/s1600/DSC_2197.JPG

Then I tried out my buddy's Leica 1600b and it was definitely useful in Merritt (pinged 1,330m without much aggrivation), but then I've been reading about these Sigs and I'm totally sold.

Yeah, I don't mind a side-by-side comparison. We'll have to figure out a time and place. The rifle the Steiner is mounted to is a PITA to move around, lol!
 
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I too have a tough time holding the Swarovski steady. I also find pushing the button adds unecessary wiggle to your hold. I generally mount it to my tri-pod (used as a monopod) and it easily ranges 500+y further by holding it steady. Background does affect results.

1300m? Childs play with the 50cal. =)

Kidding. Sounds like fun. Steiner makes nice scopes too. Lots of less common options out there like March, Steiner, etc.
 
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