The World of Cartridges and Compromises........

My .375 Ultra likely covers the same ground, and since the .378 needs 26"-28" of barrel for acceleration purposes, my rifle is shorter, lighter . . . a lot lighter, and I bet that given the 12 grs difference in their respective powder charges, when the same powder is chosen, it doesn't kick as hard. That said, slow motion video of me shooting it prone is eye opening; my shoulder appears to be driven back 6".

When I planned my .375 build, I first considered another .416 Rigby, but didn't relish the intimidating cost of brass; at the time $180/50. Then I thought .378 Weatherby, but the same conclusion as drawn. Brass for the .375 Ultra was $40/100 at the time, so I bought lots. The same expenditure would have given me perhaps 100 pieces of .378 Weatherby brass.
 
c-fbmi said:
Your statement in and of itself is a compromise........you have excluded every other animal on the planet from bison on up and have only included 8 animals on your list.
Click to expand...

I have actually shot 4 bison. Two with a 7mm magnum. My good heavens. There are precious few animals that could not handily be taken with the above cartridge. For them, use something bigger.
 
Boomer said:
My .375 Ultra likely covers the same ground, and since the .378 needs 26"-28" of barrel for acceleration purposes, my rifle is shorter, lighter . . . a lot lighter, and I bet that given the 12 grs difference in their respective powder charges, when the same powder is chosen, it doesn't kick as hard. That said, slow motion video of me shooting it prone is eye opening; my shoulder appears to be driven back 6".

When I planned my .375 build, I first considered another .416 Rigby, but didn't relish the intimidating cost of brass; at the time $180/50. Then I thought .378 Weatherby, but the same conclusion as drawn. Brass for the .375 Ultra was $40/100 at the time, so I bought lots. The same expenditure would have given me perhaps 100 pieces of .378 Weatherby brass.
Click to expand...

I think you made the right choice in cartridge for the time and the action you used. The 602 is somewhat wasted on just a H&H. And of course, we are all glad you built your rifle the way you did, since Ruger copied it and built their 375 Ruger Alaskan from your design. :)
 
chuck nelson said:
I have actually shot 4 bison. Two with a 7mm magnum. My good heavens. There are precious few animals that could not handily be taken with the above cartridge. For them, use something bigger.
Click to expand...

I know of close to a dozen bison taken in BC with the 7mm RM. I'd take my 375 if I drew a tag, of course, but I wouldn't feel undergunned with a 7RM and good bullets.
 
As stated earlier it is not about what can and has been taken with what, all the game you have listed has probably been taken with a 22 LR as well, that is not at all the point of my post.............

And no I am not running 80K psi in my 9.3 because I can use the brass again, which isn't possible at 80K or even 75K and I don't know what the pressure is but I can shoot at least 3 or more times using the same brass without losing primer pockets. So all I can say is that it is within the safe limits of W-W brass, which puts it at about 30% of what the rifle is capable of..............We've been through all this........This was all hashed out in my thread a couple years ago when I first bought the gun. Why Not? has witnessed this rifle chronographed at 3100 fps with 270 gn bullets, before I bought it from a mutual friend. It has a 26" barrel and it does what is claimed when using W-W brass, I have not done any work with it in a couple years but I did take it out and slay a blackie, a grizzly and a wolf with it.........the blackie with a 270 gn Speer (bad bullet for this velocity) and then the grizzly and wolf that fall with 270 gn Matrix spitzer RBT and I posted pics of the bullet recovered from the grizzly...........258 gns remaining, larger than a toonie and a very dead bear shot virtually point blank with an impact velocity well over 3000 fps. I will inevitably get back to it and do some more load work with it, but for now it is what it is. I ran into the wall using RL 17 and I think I was working with IMR 4350, or maybe Win 760 after that, anyway with the RL 17 I got to 3050 fps when I hit the wall......erratic velocities and actually a reduction in velocity with an increase in powder.........time to try different powders. I don't recall where I went from RL 17 without checking my notes, but 3100 looks to be definitely within reach with 270s. I was able to replicate his load of 2950 with 286 gn Nosler Parts though, actually got 2960.
 
Boomer said:
My .375 Ultra likely covers the same ground, and since the .378 needs 26"-28" of barrel for acceleration purposes, my rifle is shorter, lighter . . . a lot lighter, and I bet that given the 12 grs difference in their respective powder charges, when the same powder is chosen, it doesn't kick as hard. That said, slow motion video of me shooting it prone is eye opening; my shoulder appears to be driven back 6".

When I planned my .375 build, I first considered another .416 Rigby, but didn't relish the intimidating cost of brass; at the time $180/50. Then I thought .378 Weatherby, but the same conclusion as drawn. Brass for the .375 Ultra was $40/100 at the time, so I bought lots. The same expenditure would have given me perhaps 100 pieces of .378 Weatherby brass.
Click to expand...

The British military have done so much testing of various things, and in a book I have, they tested how much the rifle moved on firing.
They took the standard full battle ready Lee Enfield and a battle ready soldier firing it from prone, wrapped up in the sling, using standard ammo.
They calculated that the rifle moved back 1/8 of an inch, before the bullet left the barrel!
Every time I hear about these monstrous kickers I think about this. Shooting with the rifle on any fairly solid rest, the barrel would obviously recoil up, so what does that do precise point of impact?
 
c-fbmi said:
As stated earlier it is not about what can and has been taken with what, all the game you have listed has probably been taken with a 22 LR as well, that is not at all the point of my post.............

And no I am not running 80K psi in my 9.3 because I can use the brass again, which isn't possible at 80K or even 75K and I don't know what the pressure is but I can shoot at least 3 or more times using the same brass without losing primer pockets. So all I can say is that it is within the safe limits of W-W brass, which puts it at about 30% of what the rifle is capable of..............We've been through all this........This was all hashed out in my thread a couple years ago when I first bought the gun. Why Not? has witnessed this rifle chronographed at 3100 fps with 270 gn bullets, before I bought it from a mutual friend. It has a 26" barrel and it does what is claimed when using W-W brass, I have not done any work with it in a couple years but I did take it out and slay a blackie, a grizzly and a wolf with it.........the blackie with a 270 gn Speer (bad bullet for this velocity) and then the grizzly and wolf that fall with 270 gn Matrix spitzer RBT and I posted pics of the bullet recovered from the grizzly...........258 gns remaining, larger than a toonie and a very dead bear shot virtually point blank with an impact velocity well over 3000 fps. I will inevitably get back to it and do some more load work with it, but for now it is what it is. I ran into the wall using RL 17 and I think I was working with IMR 4350, or maybe Win 760 after that, anyway with the RL 17 I got to 3050 fps when I hit the wall......erratic velocities and actually a reduction in velocity with an increase in powder.........time to try different powders. I don't recall where I went from RL 17 without checking my notes, but 3100 looks to be definitely within reach with 270s. I was able to replicate his load of 2950 with 286 gn Nosler Parts though, actually got 2960.
Click to expand...

If you are getting 3100fps with the 270gr 9.3-300WM, what do you get with a 270gr 375 Ruger? There is a bit more case capacity in the 375 Ruger and it's a slightly larger diameter bullet, so you should be able to get more than the 9.3-300 in theory.
 
H4831 said:
The British military have done so much testing of various things, and in a book I have, they tested how much the rifle moved on firing.
They took the standard full battle ready Lee Enfield and a battle ready soldier firing it from prone, wrapped up in the sling, using standard ammo.
They calculated that the rifle moved back 1/8 of an inch, before the bullet left the barrel!
Every time I hear about these monstrous kickers I think about this. Shooting with the rifle on any fairly solid rest, the barrel would obviously recoil up, so what does that do precise point of impact?
Click to expand...

Provided that cheek-weld, firmness of hold, and the loads are uniform from shot to shot, and the sights are correctly zeroed for range, I'm not sure why recoil imposed muzzle lift matters. However, some rifles don't boresight particularly well, which I assumed had to do entirely with barrel harmonics, but perhaps recoil also plays a part in the equation. It has been my opinion that recoil doesn't occur until the bullet exits the barrel, or from the cylinder of a revolver, but it makes sense that some energy is imposed on the rifle as the bullet accelerates through the barrel. But then it also follows that some of that energy should also be expressed as torque from the rotational velocity imposed upon a heavy bullet, similarly as when you accelerate an engine and you observe it twist against it's mounts. Yet even when shooting hard kicking rifles, torque is seldom felt until you get up to those approaching .50 caliber with bullets that weigh more than 500 grs. Smaller cartridges like the .44 magnum impose noticeable torque when fired in lightweight handguns. My .458 (500 @ 2150) doesn't torque to any noticeable degree, but the .470 and .500s I've shot do, perhaps due to the SXS barrel configuration. Provided that recoil generated linear and rotational rifle velocity, occurring before the bullet exits the barrel, is small enough to be mitigated by sight adjustment, a rifleman never really notices them.
 
todbartell said:
If a guy hunted the globe, he can afford lose some opportunities by stalking within 400 yards and using a 375 Ruger, housed in a more portable, usable rifle than a 10+lb, 26"+brake 378 Wby. The 378, like all Wby cartridges, are stuck in the 1960's

Not many serious hunters use Weatherbys for a reason
Click to expand...

Ruger brought out their 375 to market to those who want to carry a rifle and chase butterflies.
 
Gatehouse said:
If you are getting 3100fps with the 270gr 9.3-300WM, what do you get with a 270gr 375 Ruger? There is a bit more case capacity in the 375 Ruger and it's a slightly larger diameter bullet, so you should be able to get more than the 9.3-300 in theory.
Click to expand...

In theory, being the correct evaluation for sure Gate.........how ever I don't have a 26" barreled 375 R, I believe it's actually 23" on my African, and this will more than negate the advantage in base diameter and case capacity I fear. I haven't got to that task yet but it is on my list and I have loads made up to test in both W-W formed brass and some factory Horn supplied by Steve. Retirement to the country isn't as envisioned, I'm afraid...........I am a slave to my property and home and have far less opportunity to do the things I want than when I was in my shop and working. It is a sad state of affairs !!!!!!!!
It's a good thing for me the bears come to me in the spring season, cause I never get the opportunity to go out and look for them..........I'm just about ready to sell it all and rent an apartment and a small shop to set up my gunsmithing in and screw the pastures and the lawns and the horses and the renovations and the painting and the gates and the landscaping.............AAARRRRRGGGGGGG !!!!!!!!!!

Anyway Gate I can tell you that the kid got 3200 fps from 260 ABs in his African with no issues at all and used this load in Africa to take 10 animals, in the African heat with no hiccups. And he was using my 35P chronograph, so it is most likely within a couple fps or so. My 270 gn TSX load with RL 15 chronographs at 2925 from my 24" barreled H&H 700 and it has also been used in the EXTREME heat in Zambia (55deg+) with out the slightest hint of excess pressure. I expect the Ruger to attain 3100 fps from the 23" barrel with 270s using W-W brass and possibly even more.........with the right combination of powder and bullet.
 
Last edited:
c-fbmi said:
In theory, being the correct evaluation for sure Gate.........how ever I don't have a 26" barreled 375 R, I believe it's actually 23" on my African, and this will more than negate the advantage in base diameter and case capacity I fear. I haven't got to that task yet but it is on my list and I have loads made up to test in both W-W formed brass and some factory Horn supplied by Steve. Retirement to the country isn't as envisioned, I'm afraid...........I am a slave to my property and home and have far less opportunity to do the things I want than when I was in my shop and working. It is a sad state of affairs !!!!!!!!
It's a good thing for me the bears come to me in the spring season, cause I never get the opportunity to go out and look for them..........I'm just about ready to sell it all and rent an apartment and a small shop to set up my gunsmithing in and screw the pastures and the lawns and the horses and the renovations and the painting and the gates and the landscaping.............AAARRRRRGGGGGGG !!!!!!!!!!

Anyway Gate I can tell you that the kid got 3200 fps from 260 ABs in his African with no issues at all and used this load in Africa to take 10 animals, in the African heat with no hiccups. And he was using my 35P chronograph, so it is most likely within a couple fps or so. My 270 gn TSX load with RL 15 chronographs at 2925 from my 24" barreled H&H 700 and it has also been used in the EXTREME heat in Zambia (55deg+) with out the slightest hint of excess pressure. I expect the Ruger to attain 3100 fps from the 23" barrel with 270s using W-W brass and possibly even more.........with the right combination of powder and bullet.
Click to expand...

And here I thought I was doing good with 2880 fps and 260 grain AB out of a 23" African.

Hope working on the acerage is a rewarding effort. Love that area, we were in Creston last weekend.
 
cam1936 said:
And here I thought I was doing good with 2880 fps and 260 grain AB out of a 23" African.

Hope working on the acerage is a rewarding effort. Love that area, we were in Creston last weekend.
Click to expand...


Should have given me a heads up and we could have grabbed a coffee or something........Always fun to meet other gunnutz and tell the latest lies.........
 
It's easy to become a property slave. Just when you finish one thing another pops up. I love growing a vegetable garden but it's time consuming and I don't have kids so I decided not to do it this year. We have an excellent farmers market here in the heart of some of BCs best farm country. :)
 
c-fbmi, your making me jealous, living on acreage near Creston, my god, I love that area. My father in-law lived there and we would travel there at least twice a year. He had 13 acre's on Lake View Arrow Creek rd. He passed away a few yrs ago. We don't make it out there anymore. I miss those trips to Creston.
 
And the runner up prize goes to the 375 ultra mag?? I had a 7.5lb some years ago, recoil was stiff but not awful. It was very accurate and would handle all the situations listed. I may have to build another one of those
 
Boomer said:
---------- It has been my opinion that recoil doesn't occur until the bullet exits the barrel, or from the cylinder of a revolver,----

Boomer, the point of my post was to show how the meticulous British military don't go by theories, but want to prove how something works by actual tests.
I stated in my post that they proved, in simulated battle conditions, that the rifle moved back 1/8 of an inch, before the bullet left the barrel.
There is about a hundred rifle lengths to the 100 yard range, so had the muzzle risen 1/8 of an inch before the bullet left the barrel, the bullet would strike about a foot and a half high at a hundred yards.
Also, it is my opinion, based on a lot of years of pistol/revolver competitive shooting, that the muzzle does indeed raise before the bullet leaves the barrel and this must be allowed for in adjusting the sights.
Bruce
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom