Somthing very bad happened to my M305 and im still not sure why.

T

ThatM305Guy

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So I was out the other night and started having issues with my norc. Initially I didn't think too much of it because I just replaced the stock gas lock with the (beautiful) Dlask gas lock and was still fiddling with it and getting it set up properly. It started out with the rifle not cycling properly, or only extracting half way. But when I manually cycled it, the rifle functioned normally...until a couple rounds later, one jammed up the entire action. After I got it home and disassembled I found that the bolt roller had been pushed and jammed all the way in against the side of the bolt, and the op-rod had forced its way up, and away from the receiver. The (for lack of a better term) roller "runway" slot in the op rod has been peened out pretty badly. (ill try to put up a couple pictures when I get home tonight) obviously this is the effect of something, but I'm not quite sure what yet....its only a couple years old. Was shooting standard norc 7.62. Any ideas? Has anyone heard of this before? Also does anyone know of a source for either a new op rod, or a talented gunsmith? (in the red deer area)
 
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The damage:
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I was able to clean up the bolt which is now good to go.
 
If you want, I can order you a usgi replacement if my guy has em.

Edit: It looks like it's not bent, so if you fillet weld it, and take your time with a fine file, you could easily fix it IMO.
 
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If you are willing to ship it off, there's a guy in Regina that does some decent work to them. Prices are very fair. I just had him do a bunch of stuff to my m305 and I'm happy with the results.

Look up Notsorichguy. Decent guy, answers all your questions. His website is www.m14medic.ca (or .com?)
 
N0M4D said:
If you want, I can order you a usgi replacement if my guy has em.
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How much are they running these days? Are they a drop in fit?

N0M4D said:
Edit: It looks like it's not bent, so if you fillet weld it, and take your time with a fine file, you could easily fix it IMO.
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Seeing as how it's useless as is, I would 100% be willing to give it a shot, (I'm trying to gain as much experience as I can with this sort of thing) but I don't have access to any sort of tig welder. After it's built up, the rest is easy
 
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Lowestform said:
If you are willing to ship it off, there's a guy in Regina that does some decent work to them. Prices are very fair. I just had him do a bunch of stuff to my m305 and I'm happy with the results.

Look up Notsorichguy. Decent guy, answers all your questions. His website is www.m14medic.ca (or .com?)
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Bookmarked. Looks like he a does a solid variety of work.....unfortunately he claims that TIG services are not offered currently.
 
The Dlask gas plug is adjustable, right? Were you adjusting it between shots?

Either way the evidence suggests it being an issue of overgassing. Unless there was long term damage to the bolt roller/op rod that wasn't noticed it seems like the only way for that to happen is if the op rod were under enough pressure to jump out of the raceway.

What you experienced seems to be a slightly tamer version of what happens to an M1 Garand when it fires modern high power loads without proper modification.
 
lonesalamander said:
The Dlask gas plug is adjustable, right?[....]Unless there was long term damage to the bolt roller/op rod that wasn't noticed it seems like the only way for that to happen is if the op rod were under enough pressure to jump out of the raceway.
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Well, yes and no....its adjustable in the sense that you can tighten up the gas system and lock it in place without the need for shims etc, but as far as I know it is not set up for adjustable "gassing"?
This is what Im worried about though. There feels like alot of movement/rocking and play now in the op rod that I either never noticed, or wasn't there. I'm concerned that the obvious damage isn't the only thing going on here...
 
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notsorichguy said:
Hello,

Thanks for the plug lowestform!
The web site is m14medic.ca

OP, I don't actually do any welding myself..... Well, that isn't necessarily true.... I do know how to weld, but I know several welders who are much better at it than me! And I do not have a Tig set-up. My Tig welder is currently working a shutdown and isn't due back in town till late June. He does work for me when he isn't chasing oil money....

I'd be happy to take a look at your rig, I also have a few spare chi-com op-rods hanging around, so if yours isn't salvageable, a replacement could be fitted with-out too much trouble.

Cheers!
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Hey! If I had seen this about half an hour ago you'd probably have gotten a PM about your op rod. I just sent out a message for one on the EE that has (so he says) only seen 50 rnds. I might snag up his bolt too. Anything I should know before installing a new op rod?
 
ThatM305Guy said:
How much are they running these days? Are they a drop in fit?



Seeing as how it's useless as is, I would 100% be willing to give it a shot, (I'm trying to gain as much experience as I can with this sort of thing) but I don't have access to any sort of tig welder. After it's built up, the rest is easy
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A USGI is a drop in fit, yes, and the quality is bang on, but its a little over $230usd...

Im sure you have a local machine shop in the area that can take care of the welding for you with some instruction
 
if this damage was caused by the bolt roller, I would find another bolt for comparison. rollers should not come apart like that. if the roller is not 100% it will just chew up another rod. that dlask lock is a slick idea.
 
ThatM305Guy said:
519624b8-e9c4-4931-b64c-298a60877bc9_zpsxcoyra0k.jpg
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I am not a gunsmith, but I have owned quite a few M14 platforms and do almost every kind of gunsmithing on my own.

I disagree, in my opinion from experience, with the idea it is over gassed specifically. It may have been a factor, but not the issue.

I believe it is with the metallurgy of the bolt or issues with the c-clip that holds the roller in place.

Even an over gassed M14/305 platform should not damage the metal in that way as the roller and the receiver should take the brunt of the force: a broken roller would more likely have been the first sign with a op rod wanting to fall out completely (I had a broken roller once). What I believe happened was the metal that holds the roller in place (or the c-clip) broke first and the damage to the op rod is from the small center "axle" of the bolt roller slamming into it. The roller being more friction than the "axle" slamming into the op rod is what caused the half cycling. A roller should move on the axle a small amount, but not enough to show any metal.

As stated once before: it would be horrible to change the op rod and get another one damaged.

Again, all of this is opinion based on shooting and smithing my own for over a decade and countless rounds.
 
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seen this a few times. After you repair your op rod or replace it, you should 1, make sure there is no play and that your op rod guild is aligned. There are many videos on Barrel Knurling. 2, replace your op rod spring guild with a turned cylindrical one. And 3, after all this, make sure you are using 150 grain or lighter bullets. If you do these three steps, your rifle should function without any problems even with the op rod in it current condition. Of course getting it repaired is ideal.
 
1-trident-1 said:
if this damage was caused by the bolt roller, I would find another bolt for comparison. rollers should not come apart like that. if the roller is not 100% it will just chew up another rod. that dlask lock is a slick idea.
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It didn't really come apart so much as just jam up...but again....is this a problem with bolt itself? Or is this a result of something with the op rod which then cause the roller yo jam, resulting in this?
It really Is slick...definitely worth the money. Their norinco ones say sold out but I'm not sure if they are or I they're still working on getting them fixed....their most recent run had a bit of an issue.
 
Pop said:
It almost looks like the op rod was out of it's track and hitting the roller at an angle.
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wouldn't surprise me, a lot of these norcs come with out of spec bent op rods and run at weird angles. I've seen a couple that are so bad that once you locked down the oprod guide, the gun would jam... it needed the wiggle to allow it to go forward and back because the op rod was so bent. 3 now that bind up on the top of the barrel.
 
Okay guys.....here is the best I can come up with. My thoughts are that the tab on the op rod itself was either out of spec from the factory, or excessively worn (or both) and rocked itself juuuust far enough from the receiver to hit the outside corner of the roller, which caused it to be pushed in towards the bolt, and jamming in the process. At this point it began rubbing and peening the slot until it got so bad, that it jammed up completely.
She was sitting in a blackfeather stock that I painstakingly installed (it took me two full evenings) exactly to the instructions. I must have tilt tested it 10 times over the course of the installation. 100% had nothing to do with the op rod guide itself...there is just way to much rocking and play in the op rod. I have a new op rod in the pipe so we'll see how she fits....worth a shot for the price I'm paying.
 
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