45 schofield is good for making 455 but 45autorim is a bit easier because you don't need to trim it. Trimming uses up a lot of time and effort.
The Webley .455 - Noob Questions
- Thread starter Ve3xti
- Start date
45 schofield is good for making 455 but 45autorim is a bit easier because you don't need to trim it. Trimming uses up a lot of time and effort.
I'm not going to revisit my comparing the various cases as I made a lifetime supply of Webley brass when I did it.
But as I recall, you end up with head and rim dimensions closer to .455 Webley if you use Schofield as the parent case. I think that was the reason I did it, but we're talking about 15 years or so ago. I also (afterwards), liked the idea that I could leave the cases far longer than specified .455 dimensions and they still fit in the cylinder. I mean, WAY longer. Webleys (and Triple Locks) cut really long chambers in the cylinders when you compare the specs of the .455 for case length and what actual case length will fit in the cylinder. For example:
You can see my .455 reload in that group photo, along with the shorter, original loading in the example of the WWII round just over from it. The cast bullet, BTW, is RCBS's version of the original hollowbase. Works great.
Were I doing it again, I probably wouldn't simply just thin the rim to SAAMI spec, or Cartridge of the World, or the WWII example, or whatever I used. I would thin a test case from the front, just enough that there was good clearance without any drag, in my revolver while it was dirty (NOT clean). I don't know for a fact, but I suspect clearances were generous everywhere, and if cases can be that much longer and still fully seat in the chambers, then I suspect you could leave yourself with much thicker rims as well.
It is and isn't a bit more work to use Schofield brass. Once I got the lathe set up, however, it took no time at all to turn Schofield brass into Webley brass. Turning the cases down to length was more of a pain in the ass than anything else - which is why I originally turned them down no shorter than necessary to reliably chamber.
Exactly what I said - trimming cases to length is a pain in the ass. Webley didn't follow SAAMI specs and no reason for anyone else to either. Some of the cut-down schofield brass is too thick at the neck depending on how much you trim it, and needs to be inside neck reamed to be used in some revolvers - which makes it a double PIA. With 45 autorim brass you only have to thin the rim and don't have 2 or 3 additional operations to perform on each piece of brass: trimming+chamfering+reaming
And that's why I said starting out with 45 autorim brass is easier - because it is easier.
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The fiocchi ammo is the cheapest way to get brass short of an awesome gun show find, or right place at the right time.
Bullets are available from jethunter or Oma bullets. Does can be found pretty easy from lee. I usually use the lee hand press and a hornady powder scale for mine since I don't do much volume.
Sorry for the delay. I'll be using .45 Auto Rim to form .455 brass.
I've also recently bought a S&W Model of 1950 Target (pre-Model 25), so I'll have another reason to buy .45 Auto Rim brass; I'll paint the primers black on the .455 brass for identification.
I've also recently bought a S&W Model of 1950 Target (pre-Model 25), so I'll have another reason to buy .45 Auto Rim brass; I'll paint the primers black on the .455 brass for identification.
If I may - I can't comment on the triple-lock, I don't have one, but I can fill yer ears on the Webley.
I bought a Webley Mk. VI a couple years ago - glad I did, it got me back into shooting - and I worked-through the effort involved to reload for it. I recommend you go-out and buy two (if you're not going to shoot it a lot) or three or more (if you're going to shoot it a lot) boxes of Fiocchi (yeah, $50+ a box ), and don't bother looking for any other brass. A simple reason - all Fiocchi take small primers and everything else takes big primers, so just settling-on Fiocchi brass means you only need one size of primer (and one set-up for your press) and it removes a massive PITA from your reloading bench. Says the voice of experience; I have both. You can use the .45 ACP dies, or just buy the Lee dies - they work just fine.
To convert ammo for the .455, get .45 Colt, cut it to length and shave the rim from the front (i.e., from the case-mouth end); you can't shave the head of the case, or you'll make the primer pocket shorter. The Webley has a very thin rim - .023" IIRC (Wikipedia has it), the .45 Colt has a thick rim, and my Webley is very finicky about rim thickness; if the cylinder won't advance, that's usually why (or a skeg of powder residue has built-up around the firing pin hole - again). The .45 Auto Rim has a HUUUUGE rim; .066" IIRC.
Edit - the Hornady LnL doesn't have a cartridge plate to fit the .455 - the closest is for the magnum rifles, and I really must get off my lazy @$$ and grind-back the glide-lips underneath each hole a bit, they catch on the rims.
I load my Webley very soft - ~3.5gr of fast powder, Vihtavuori N310, 700X, Trail Boss and the like. You need a fast powder because the Webley leaks pressure and slower powders won't generate enough heat to ignite; there's a guy up on Youtube who loads ~5 gr second-level powder (VV N320, Unique, Blue Dot &c) with a heavy crimp. The other thing; I use heavy bullets, 255gr Lyman LSWC's, for the same reason - make it harder for the powder to shove it, thus generating more heat and pressure. Flat-based; it doesn't seem to matter. Bore size - as I understand it, all Webleys were drilled with a .442" drill, and rifled-out 0.004" on either side, for a total of 0.450". I use a 0.452" die, with very accurate results and I've never had a problem; why they called it "455", I don't know.
I keep velocities ~620 f/s; this is ~130 f/s below the scripted Webley load, and Webleys are not very strong. The shaved-cylinder Webleys were fed .45 ACP straight-up, and your stock .45 ACP load generates as much pressure as the proof Webley loads - you can find photos of burst Webleys. I went out on ePay and scored me a shaved cylinder so I can use .45 ACP's in moon clips - and I load all my .45's very light, so I don't have to worry about a +P load meant for our newer pistols, finding its way into the Webley.
EDIT - and besides, how much power do you need to kill a piece of paper? - even at 600 f/s, you know when you hit the tin duck! The reasons I don't push 'em even slower are that 1) the auto's stop cycling, and 2) even fast powders get smoky, smelly and gunky if you load them too light.
A treat to shoot!
I bought a Webley Mk. VI a couple years ago - glad I did, it got me back into shooting - and I worked-through the effort involved to reload for it. I recommend you go-out and buy two (if you're not going to shoot it a lot) or three or more (if you're going to shoot it a lot) boxes of Fiocchi (yeah, $50+ a box
), and don't bother looking for any other brass. A simple reason - all Fiocchi take small primers and everything else takes big primers, so just settling-on Fiocchi brass means you only need one size of primer (and one set-up for your press) and it removes a massive PITA from your reloading bench. Says the voice of experience; I have both. You can use the .45 ACP dies, or just buy the Lee dies - they work just fine.To convert ammo for the .455, get .45 Colt, cut it to length and shave the rim from the front (i.e., from the case-mouth end); you can't shave the head of the case, or you'll make the primer pocket shorter. The Webley has a very thin rim - .023" IIRC (Wikipedia has it), the .45 Colt has a thick rim, and my Webley is very finicky about rim thickness; if the cylinder won't advance, that's usually why (or a skeg of powder residue has built-up around the firing pin hole - again). The .45 Auto Rim has a HUUUUGE rim; .066" IIRC.
Edit - the Hornady LnL doesn't have a cartridge plate to fit the .455 - the closest is for the magnum rifles, and I really must get off my lazy @$$ and grind-back the glide-lips underneath each hole a bit, they catch on the rims.
I load my Webley very soft - ~3.5gr of fast powder, Vihtavuori N310, 700X, Trail Boss and the like. You need a fast powder because the Webley leaks pressure and slower powders won't generate enough heat to ignite; there's a guy up on Youtube who loads ~5 gr second-level powder (VV N320, Unique, Blue Dot &c) with a heavy crimp. The other thing; I use heavy bullets, 255gr Lyman LSWC's, for the same reason - make it harder for the powder to shove it, thus generating more heat and pressure. Flat-based; it doesn't seem to matter. Bore size - as I understand it, all Webleys were drilled with a .442" drill, and rifled-out 0.004" on either side, for a total of 0.450". I use a 0.452" die, with very accurate results and I've never had a problem; why they called it "455", I don't know.
I keep velocities ~620 f/s; this is ~130 f/s below the scripted Webley load, and Webleys are not very strong. The shaved-cylinder Webleys were fed .45 ACP straight-up, and your stock .45 ACP load generates as much pressure as the proof Webley loads - you can find photos of burst Webleys. I went out on ePay and scored me a shaved cylinder so I can use .45 ACP's in moon clips - and I load all my .45's very light, so I don't have to worry about a +P load meant for our newer pistols, finding its way into the Webley.
EDIT - and besides, how much power do you need to kill a piece of paper? - even at 600 f/s, you know when you hit the tin duck! The reasons I don't push 'em even slower are that 1) the auto's stop cycling, and 2) even fast powders get smoky, smelly and gunky if you load them too light.
A treat to shoot!
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Haven't read all the previous posts closely, so this may have been mentioned. As regards shellholders, somewhere I read that RCBS(?) actually makes one specifically for the .455. Lee (which I use) recommends their Nº5 and while it works, the Webley rim is very thin so there is a lot of play in the shellholder. You just have to be a bit careful when you load.
I just checked Rusty Wood's website, expecting to see the exorbitantly-priced Bertram brass, but found this:
I don't know if Peter is turning these down himself or bringing them in but that's not all that bad. The stuff lasts for ages at those low pressures.
I don't know if Peter is turning these down himself or bringing them in but that's not all that bad. The stuff lasts for ages at those low pressures.
There have been a number of Webley .455 threads on CGN, but as this may be the most recent, I thought I'd add this here. I came across this animated video on disassembling the Webley Mk V!. The link also has some other interesting Webley links.
Also, some of you may know that Webley & Scott are trying to drum up enough interested parties to pony up $100 ea. to fund making the .455 Webley revolver again using the original plans. (The above video is also on that website). However, it seems this has been ongoing for some time and there's no indication of what progress, if any, has been made. I think I came across this website a couple of years ago and the "sign up" page still reads, "Our online payment system will be active soon..." They did exhibit the "Anderson Wheeler Mk VII" at the 2016 Shot Show, but this is a real luxury item, as it is a 7-shot .357 Magnum using original the break-action design... and a £6500 price tag.
Also, some of you may know that Webley & Scott are trying to drum up enough interested parties to pony up $100 ea. to fund making the .455 Webley revolver again using the original plans. (The above video is also on that website). However, it seems this has been ongoing for some time and there's no indication of what progress, if any, has been made. I think I came across this website a couple of years ago and the "sign up" page still reads, "Our online payment system will be active soon..." They did exhibit the "Anderson Wheeler Mk VII" at the 2016 Shot Show, but this is a real luxury item, as it is a 7-shot .357 Magnum using original the break-action design... and a £6500 price tag.
rustywoodtc
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We are not making them ourselves but they are made by a US supplier of obsolete and hard to find calibers. They are very well made and I use them myself in my Webley VI 455. They are the shorter Mark II version but work well in both chambers. Being made from 45 Colt brass the walls a bit thicker as well and will last many reloads if you take care of it.
post #26...
personally I use 3Gr Bullseye 250Gr .452 bullet 1.28"coal vel is about 440fps. use at your own discretion.
Others (Ganderite, jethunter... etc.) will chip in with more complete info, but around 4-5 gr. of Unique is often suggested. with 250-265 gr. bullets. You need something fast to gve the base of the bullet a good smack to bump it up to bore diameter if the cylinder throat is oversize. A good firm crimp is recommended as well, to delay the release of the bullet and build up pressure. The British Military Forum would also be good to check with.a good source of info. There used to ba fellow here on CGN, GrantR (Grant Rombaugh, in Sask.) who was a wealth of info on such matters. I'm sure he posts on the BMF.
2341??? Is that one of those old tyme powders froom yesteryear you've got salted away, or did you mean Winchester 231/HP38? 500 fps... time for a cup of tea before the bullet hits the target!
