S&W Model 41 - looking for your input.

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chevy

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Advice/direction needed from Model 41 owners.

I just purchased a Model 41 made in the late 70"s.
Seller just informed me he was shooting the pistol with the plunger removed as he found it was running better without it.

Not having any experience with the mechanical side of these pistols, I asked him for his reasoning on why the plunger was removed?

His reply:
"The plunger goes between the extractor spring and the extractor. I found that taking out the plunger, such that the spring was bearing directly against the extractor made it less likely for the slide to fail to go into battery from the extractor not snapping over the case rim. I'm not sure why it was having problems in factory condition, but taking out the plunger seemed like an easy way of decreasing the extractor tension without permanently modifying anything. Your results, of course, may vary, so the plunger was included."

My question: Is this a common fix to have the pistol function better? Or is there an underlying problem that should be addressed so the pistol will function as it should with the plunger installed?

Look forward to your replies.

Thanks,
chevy
 
I would think that, if the plunger isn't binding in it's travel, it shouldn't have any impact on the extractor grasping the rim of the case. The added compression of the spring, with the plunger in place, will make the extractor grip more firmly, but I would be surprised that it would add so much tension, that it would prevent the extractor from popping over the rim of the case, thereby preventing the slide from closing completely - but it sounds like that is what this guy is alluding to. What I found with my 41, is that it is very particular about the ammo you feed it. It will shoot "Target" and "Standard Velocity", all day long, with no issues - if you try anything that is over 1100 fps, it will FTE on every 2nd or 3rd round. The extractor will pull the empty case, halfway out of the chamber, then let go of it. I replaced the extractor, spring and plunger - it made no difference. I know other guys who have 41's and they have the same issue with theirs - and I know guys with 41's, that will function reliably with whatever they feed it. Finicky piece, for something that retails now, for $1500 - but it is a lovely gun.
 
chevy said:
Advice/direction needed from Model 41 owners.

I just purchased a Model 41 made in the late 70"s.
Seller just informed me he was shooting the pistol with the plunger removed as he found it was running better without it.

Not having any experience with the mechanical side of these pistols, I asked him for his reasoning on why the plunger was removed?

His reply:
"The plunger goes between the extractor spring and the extractor. I found that taking out the plunger, such that the spring was bearing directly against the extractor made it less likely for the slide to fail to go into battery from the extractor not snapping over the case rim. I'm not sure why it was having problems in factory condition, but taking out the plunger seemed like an easy way of decreasing the extractor tension without permanently modifying anything. Your results, of course, may vary, so the plunger was included."

My question: Is this a common fix to have the pistol function better? Or is there an underlying problem that should be addressed so the pistol will function as it should with the plunger installed?

Look forward to your replies.

Thanks,
chevy
Click to expand...

I have fixed a few 41's and 3 46's. Removing the plunger is not really the best solution. I make a new plunger and extractor, keep the factory spring. Works much better.
 
Removing the plunger will reduce the compression preload in the spring by a LOT. This makes it easier for the extractor to snap over the lip of the casing.

It also reduces the holding power of the extractor if you manually want to extract the round for any reason. That's not a good thing.

It will affect the ejection since the ejector pushes on the one side while the extractor holds the other side of the rim. This sets up the physics of the ejection path of the brass. A weaker extractor might well result in a different ejection path. I'd also worry about that path in relation to FTE issues. But it sounds like it hasn't been an issue.

In the 41 the gun is a direct blowback operation so the extractor doesn't actually extract the casing when the gun fires. During normal operation it is only there to act as a pivot point for the ejection at the end of the slide's rearward stroke.

My own recently acquired 41 is fine with the plunger in place. If the gun in question has issues with failing to go into battery I'd be looking at what other sources of drag are present. In addition most semi auto guns see the rims rising up and going into place behind the extractor hook during chambering. In particular those with side located extractors. So if replacing the plunger results in the rims not wanting to correctly slide up behind the extractor hook I'd be inspecting the hook for burrs or sharp edges that might be dragging on the brass.

Or the gun may just be dirty or lubed with a less than ideal product or something else that is creating drag during the slide's cycle. Goodness knows that there's few things as filthy as rimfire in a direct blowback gun. I've been testing EEZOX in a couple of my rimfire guns to see if I can reduce the mess and build up of drag from the "gloop" formed from oil and fouling plus unburned powder granules that fills up semi auto rimfire guns.
 
Be aware that the 41 is NOT made or sprung for hi velocity ammo. Stick to standard or target loads. It will run better with this, and won't break the ejector or peen the frame. I'd be tempted to buy a spring kit and replace all the springs on a used one if it's had more then one owner. I have one the same vintage as you have. Had to replace the ejector (meathead had been shooting minimags thru it).
 
Cocked&Locked said:
Be aware that the 41 is NOT made or sprung for hi velocity ammo. Stick to standard or target loads. It will run better with this, and won't break the ejector or peen the frame. I'd be tempted to buy a spring kit and replace all the springs on a used one if it's had more then one owner. I have one the same vintage as you have. Had to replace the ejector (meathead had been shooting minimags thru it).
Click to expand...

I can also say from personal experience that it won't cycle with CCI Quiet loads doing around 720fps..... :d

Mistook the blue package as SV because during a tidying up session I apparently swapped the locations of the two stacks of bricks for SV and Quiet then stacked up a few boxes of each in front of the wrong bricks. Total confusion and a Model 41 that had to be manually cycled for that session....

With SV ammo in it the next week I got some very nice tidy groups. Made me look better than I think I am.... :d
 
Like many, my 41 does well with CCI standard velocity. But so far, it gives its best results, both in accuracy and in function with SK standard plus. Like others have said, stick with standard velocity ammo (between 1050 and 1100 fps).
Now about that plunger thing, I would not dare saying more than my 41 works real well just out of the factory without any modifications.

Gilbert
 
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