Question regarding 45-70 and imr 3031

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Luis1

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A weird question (for me at least) regarding following load data for 45-70:

415 gr lead cast bullet - with gas checks
40 gr of imr 3031
Starline brass trimmed to 2.100
Mild to medium crimp on the crimp line

My question is, I loaded up 5 batches of 5 rnds each to find a decent starting point to develop a load for my marlin. The loads ranged from 45 gr of imr 3031 to 47 gr. These were all thumpers and teeth rattlers.

I also decided to make a, what I thought would be anyway, a mild load using the data above. It turned out to kick harder then most of the loads above. I am new at handloading this round and would love some insight into this, as I would like to make an enjoyable load for plinking when I take people out to the range.

Thanks.
 
Do you have any unfired "mlld" rounds? If so, pull one and weigh the powder. If you use a balance beam scale, it is possible to make a 5 gr error.

Other than that, I have no idea, unless the "Mild" ones were loaded later, with the wrong powder, like 4198.
 
marlin 1895 gbl, OK I'll take a look at that and see what I can come up with. Funny enough though, the casings were not showing much in terms of signs of over pressure. Even the primers didn't show anything with the exception of the one round I loaded up with 47 gr of 3031.the primer had the slightest of bulging.
 
Funny enough, I was firing all these on rests. I never even thought that would amplify the recoil.
 
Luis1 said:
Funny enough though, the casings were not showing much in terms of signs of over pressure.
Click to expand...

The classic "over-pressure" signs hand-loaders look for often don't show on a straight walled case like the 45-70. Usually the first sign of a drastically over-pressure load is the rifle coming apart in your hands.



With that said the loads you started with are very mild and the starting load should have given you ~1500 fps velocity. Like Ganderite mentioned any chance you scale was incorrect"

Which rifle are you shooting these out of?

Now I re-read you data you tried a 40 grain load? That is way below normal starting loads and that in itself is not a good idea as you may end up experiencing all sorts of problems ranging from unpredictable ignition up to the semi-mythical secondary explosion effect.
 
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You have no need, whatsoever, for Trail Boss powder in your 45-70. There are about half a dozen medium burning rifle powders that will get you excellent loads, from trap door pressures on up. Unique will do everything from trap door down.
I used 42.5 grains of 3031 to get trap door velocity, about 1440 fps with 405 grain cast bullets in my Marlin with 22 inch barrel.
 
I second what H4831 has said about Unique. Great powder for plinker loads in the 45-70, and they make a big hole without punching you around. I also use BlueDot as a step up from Unique, to get a bit more velocity and still nothing to write home about recoil wise.

IIRC, Unique loads I was shooting were around 1,100 fps, and the BlueDot, 1,350 ish with 405 grain bullets.
 
Looking back at it, I think my scale might have been the problem. I was loading some 223 last night and my scale started bouncing all over the place for a couple of loads and I thought it was my powder measure. I think it's time I get a better scale.

That is also good to know about the below normal starting load. I am used to handloading rifle and pistol calibres so I have never ventured below the starting loads before for obvious reasons.

Thanks!
 
H4831 said:
You have no need, whatsoever, for Trail Boss powder in your 45-70. There are about half a dozen medium burning rifle powders that will get you excellent loads, from trap door pressures on up. Unique will do everything from trap door down.
I used 42.5 grains of 3031 to get trap door velocity, about 1440 fps with 405 grain cast bullets in my Marlin with 22 inch barrel.
Click to expand...

I will pick some unique up and begin experimenting with that. I'm shooting out of an 18 inch marlin barrel.
 
I have been using from 12.0-16.0 grains of "UNIQUE" for my 420 grain flat nosed cast bullets, and 525 grain postells (Varget) for years. I can get up to 1400fps with it no problem.
At 15 grains/ load, thats at least 460 rounds per pound! Unbelievably cheap shooting for a thumper like this!

Unique works very well in my marlin guide gun, T/C Katadin 45-70' and my Browning 1885 BPCR.
 
If I remember correctly my load with 418gr cast bullets in my 1885 is 53 grains of 3031 which gives me about 1950 FPS. I got it out of Pet Loads and it's not a max load.
 
Thank you all for your comments and sharing of load data. I have definitely learned a couple of things from some of the comments here. 1st being, I need a new scale lol.
 
Just to add, I use 46gr of 3031 over a 405 in my marlin. I have found this to be a very accurate load. In my Ruger #3 I use 50gr 3031 over the same 405. About 1750 and enough recoil in a light gun. These are hunting loads & not as much fun for plinking.
 
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