So I got $2000 in spare cash, and I want to get a black rifle...

War Song

War Song

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Title says it all. I don't know anything about milspec, I just know the AR-15 platform is a nice looking one, and I want to get in on the action. I prefer something that's rock-solid and won't bust on me because I did something borderline stupid. I'm also open to other options, like the Norinco T-97 flat top, but I heard that one wasn't too friendly to left-hand shooters like me. My previous gun experience is a Winchester/Miroku 1892, which the gun store clerk told me not to take apart, and TNW's Aero Survival Rifle which is as straight-forward as a blowback can be.

From what I glimpse on the AR forums, AR owners seem to like to take apart their guns, a lot. I am intimidated by this aspect, so I was hoping for something that I can shoot out of the box (if that exists for an AR) with as little work as possible. Appreciate any suggestions!

PS: I been taking a quick look around the online stores, and I have my eyes on the Bushmaster M4 and Sig M400. Any info or opinions on these guns would be great :).
 
How strongly do you value non-restricted status is the biggest factor we must know before making any true suggestions.

As far as being concerned about doing a few mods: all I have to say is most black rifles try to be the AR, which is THE "Lego gun".

No other platform is as Lego like as the AR, this is why you see so many people tinkering, because it really is easy to work on with only a basic knowledge of firearms. Do not be intimidated by customization options, those are what make AR's so incredibly interesting.
 
onetwentyish said:
How strongly do you value non-restricted status is the biggest factor we must know before making any true suggestions.

As far as being concerned about doing a few mods: all I have to say is most black rifles try to be the AR, which is THE "Lego gun".

No other platform is as Lego like as the AR, this is why you see so many people tinkering, because it really is easy to work on with only a basic knowledge of firearms. Do not be intimidated by customization options, those are what make AR's so incredibly interesting.
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Gotcha :). As for being non-restricted vs restricted, I had that argument with myself, and I decided I'm just going to purchase a SU-16F along with whatever I decide here. So right now, I'm just looking for something for the range and to show-off to friends. I don't plan to hunt with this black rifle.

Keithjohn said:
Vz 58 non restricted in 7.62x39 . Cheap ammo and lots of options available
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Its a nice gun alright, but I'm actually waiting for the newly classified Type 81 from Norinco to arrive :D. Something about it looks more right to me than the VZ.
 
As a lefty myself (predominantly) I understand your plight.

Note that blowback operated rifles (pistol caliber carbines) are also not lefty friendly as they tend to spray out and back from the ejection port. It's like getting a face sprayed with high speed warm sand.

If you're looking for rifle calibre a great option for a 5.56 NATO non-restricted is the kel-tec SU-16 "Tactical" and to a lesser degree the Ruger mini-14. The SU-16 takes STANAG magazines, the same as the AR-15 platform, so you do get some additional versatility if/when you decide to venture into restricted territory. Also you can legally use 10 round LAR-15 magazines.

The T97 is most certainly not lefty friendly, I haven't even tried with mine.
 
War Song said:
Gotcha :). As for being non-restricted vs restricted, I had that argument with myself, and I decided I'm just going to purchase a SU-16F along with whatever I decide here. So right now, I'm just looking for something for the range and to show-off to friends. I don't plan to hunt with this black rifle.



Its a nice gun alright, but I'm actually waiting for the newly classified Type 81 from Norinco to arrive :D. Something about it looks more right to me than the VZ.
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Good choice. I love my SU-16.
 
get an AR-15

Everyone needs at least one in their collection. Not only is it a great gun but it's also a good idea for the gun community. The more restricted AR-15's we can get registered in Canada the harder it makes the government to ever consider restricting it further (prohibited status)
 
War Song, in my opinion, you are planning to grow your collection in both an uneconomical and unpractical way.

By doing an SU16 + whatever $2000 black rifle, you will be looking to spend at least $1200 afterwards on iron sights and decent optics. Then with the SU16 you will likely end up wanting to modify it to make it feel more AR like when you realize how cheesy they feel and how they leave you wanting pretty good, so you will spend another $500.

To me if you combined both budgets, you would have close to $4500. That can get you one pretty sweet rig complete with optics, accessories, lefty friendly, and non-restricted with probably enough left over to buy a stripped AR lower to satisfy bongo.

Your current budget looks like this to me:
-$2000 for your black rifle
-$500 minimum for a decent optic ($1000 for a quality one)
-$100 for polymer iron sights ($200 for qulaity metal ones)
-$600-700 for the SU16
-$500 minimum for a decent optic ($1000 for a quality one)
-$500 to make the SU16 black rifle-ish
$3200-4300 the amount you intend to spend all together.

I strongly think that either the low or higher can get you into one of the best NR black rifles available in Canada.

Having myself owned almost all of Canada's NR black rifles at some point or another, I would say the 2 most interesting options to look at are a Tavor with a lefty conversion, or a NR ACR.

Here is an example of my Tavor and ACR. Both are lefty friendly.



 
I would also suggest to skip the Keltec su16 and spend that extra money towards a nice high quality NR black rifle instead of 1 AR and 1 kel tec.

If you dont want that route and want the AR (not dogging AR as I have 1 myself and a Tavor), there is nothing wrong with the 2 you were looking at. Both a pretty decent rifles and the cost of them still leave you with a little bit of money to get a decent optic.

Aside from others opinions, there are plenty of good options that are not Colt
 
SU 16 $700 pistol grip and for end $300 . $1000 ish all in. I had 2 and they were performed well and fun. 1 1/2 to 2 MOA with hand loads .
Had a colt Canada and stag arms, both very nice but limited to range use.
Had a Xcr- L , reliable, fun but heavy.
Now waiting on a MV, hopefully it covers all the bases.
 
kablam said:
As a lefty myself (predominantly) I understand your plight.

Note that blowback operated rifles (pistol caliber carbines) are also not lefty friendly as they tend to spray out and back from the ejection port. It's like getting a face sprayed with high speed warm sand.

If you're looking for rifle calibre a great option for a 5.56 NATO non-restricted is the kel-tec SU-16 "Tactical" and to a lesser degree the Ruger mini-14. The SU-16 takes STANAG magazines, the same as the AR-15 platform, so you do get some additional versatility if/when you decide to venture into restricted territory. Also you can legally use 10 round LAR-15 magazines.

The T97 is most certainly not lefty friendly, I haven't even tried with mine.
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My TNW ASR allowed me to switch the ejection side, was too hard of job either :). I'm trying to decide between the normal SU-16 and Tactical version. With the normal version, I can buy the pistol grip kit for the same price and I keep the old grip and stock as well (which I actually like). Does the tactical version come only with the pistol grips?
 
onetwentyish said:
War Song, in my opinion, you are planning to grow your collection in both an uneconomical and unpractical way.

By doing an SU16 + whatever $2000 black rifle, you will be looking to spend at least $1200 afterwards on iron sights and decent optics. Then with the SU16 you will likely end up wanting to modify it to make it feel more AR like when you realize how cheesy they feel and how they leave you wanting pretty good, so you will spend another $500.

To me if you combined both budgets, you would have close to $4500. That can get you one pretty sweet rig complete with optics, accessories, lefty friendly, and non-restricted with probably enough left over to buy a stripped AR lower to satisfy bongo.
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The Tavor I know is a decent gun, but it just doesn't appeal to me. The ACR, I wasn't aware was available as NR in Canada, but again it lacks appeal for me. I guess I should add I want to get a carbine configuration rifle; not really a fan of the long barrel DM look, and I don't shoot competitively nor need to hunt at long distances.

As for the SU-16, I'm keeping it as is, and I already have a red dot and pair of irons for it from my ASR-9, which I am thinking of selling.
 
Brianma65 said:
SU 16 $700 pistol grip and for end $300 . $1000 ish all in. I had 2 and they were performed well and fun. 1 1/2 to 2 MOA with hand loads .
Had a colt Canada and stag arms, both very nice but limited to range use.
Had a Xcr- L , reliable, fun but heavy.
Now waiting on a MV, hopefully it covers all the bases.
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Do all AR accessories fit on the Modern Varmint?
 
You have to decide if going to the range is the only place you want to shoot.

THEN once you have chosen between restricted and non-restricted, you begin narrowing your choices.

The AR Piston driven platform has a bazillion options for modifications, just about ANY calibre and CHEAP to build/maintain. It can be made into anything from a pistol to a long range precision rifle BUT... you are constricted to the limits of the range you shoot at due to their current restricted classification.

iu


vs

iu
 
mikethebike said:
colt canada
colt usa through irg
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My thoughts too for a restricted.


onetwentyish said:
War Song, in my opinion, you are planning to grow your collection in both an uneconomical and unpractical way.

By doing an SU16 + whatever $2000 black rifle, you will be looking to spend at least $1200 afterwards on iron sights and decent optics. Then with the SU16 you will likely end up wanting to modify it to make it feel more AR like when you realize how cheesy they feel and how they leave you wanting pretty good, so you will spend another $500.

To me if you combined both budgets, you would have close to $4500. That can get you one pretty sweet rig complete with optics, accessories, lefty friendly, and non-restricted with probably enough left over to buy a stripped AR lower to satisfy bongo.

Your current budget looks like this to me:
-$2000 for your black rifle
-$500 minimum for a decent optic ($1000 for a quality one)
-$100 for polymer iron sights ($200 for qulaity metal ones)
-$600-700 for the SU16
-$500 minimum for a decent optic ($1000 for a quality one)
-$500 to make the SU16 black rifle-ish
$3200-4300 the amount you intend to spend all together.

I strongly think that either the low or higher can get you into one of the best NR black rifles available in Canada.

Having myself owned almost all of Canada's NR black rifles at some point or another, I would say the 2 most interesting options to look at are a Tavor with a lefty conversion, or a NR ACR.
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and for a Non-restricted, following Onetwentyish's advice would be my advice...

Cheers D
 
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