Baikal MP-443
- Thread starter Slamnek
- Start date
Baikal MP-443 is a pistol manufactured on the Russian government order and generally not allowed for export directly by the manufacturer. It’s quite interesting if we actually have a 443 model in Canada. If we do, most likely it was made and imported before 2005. For export the manufacturer introduced a “civilian” model Baikal MP-446 Viking and later “sport” model Baikal MP-446C Viking. All 3 models are basically the same firearm. Keep in mind the magazine has been modified through the years of production. Not all of them are interchangeable. Due to Russian regulations it was not possible to get the spare MP-433/MP-446 magazines out of Russia. The only way was to order the pistol with ‘X’ number of magazines (most popular was 6 mags) all serialized to the gun. Now, with the economic sanctions against Russia and the manufacturer in particular it’s impossible to import Baikal pistols and parts. Your only friend is EE
Not exactly. One can still buy a Baikal MP-446C Viking with two mags at Interammo (http://interammo.com). These are old imports drying gradually out. Having said that, I was seriously considering at some point in time to buy it but after reading a number of articles and watching You Tube videos I gave up. IMHO the price is inflated and one can buy a better handgun with a polymer frame for less.
Last edited:
It is allowed export. gov't, police, contractor, and civilian, in these countries, specifics for each are dependent of country.
Generally not for civilian, but many countries allow caliber for license.
bold: wrong.
443 and 446 are very different in design.
slides and frame are not interchangeable, nor are barrels, some parts, magazines.
the 443 is gov't, police, military, and contractor with some civilian licenses. Caliber differences are design specific.
I own 443.
I can also sign out gov't serialized model 443 with my license and specific regulations.
the 446 was designed to not be able to be converted to the design characteristics of the 443.
446 was made for civilian licenses and export firearm markets.
the specific differences are the abilities of over pressure cartridges, the 446 cannot handle and was designed that way, the 443 models can handle was designed specifically for select cartridges.
446 models were also designed by manufacturer designation to be only < some differences specific to various regulations in regarding to maximum joules of kinetic energy cartridges, for non licensed personal defense weapon.
446 is manufactured in polymer frame, aluminum alloy frame and some are alloyed steel frame. slides of latter material.
443 is manufactured in aluminum alloy and alloyed steel frame. slides as well.
446 was design for export markets, magazines are readily available.
many many were serialized for export with the gun as generalized all efficient coinciding with various export import regulations of different countries as a catch all all be all.
not all magazines are serialized to frame / firearm.
they can be found all over europe.
wrong.
look all over europe and even u.s.
Last edited:
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Teapot2 = Interammo.
Phat Eagle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Fraser Valley, BC
Yup... Teapot2 is Interammo, and the authority on all things Russian in Canada. If he says the EE is your friend you know that's truth.
I'd pass on such an orphan.
I'd pass on such an orphan.
Last edited:
LOL, there is another angle to this, considering the latest political development and military deployment we might not see anything made in Russia for the next 50 years. So maybe the orphan will actually turn into a rare collector item
LOL, there is another angle to this, considering the latest political development and military deployment we might not see anything made in Russia for the next 50 years. So maybe the orphan will actually turn into a rare collector item
Only being more valuable than an original Tokerov 7.62x25 and Russian SKS's. Rumour has it the latter guns may exceed the values of current Colt snake guns.
Take Care
Bob
Do you even know what are you talking about?
oh yes.
443 was one of my service sidearms.
I own a 443.
I can sign out gov't 443 with specific regulations.
maybe laugh.
but check on things first. Salesmen of firearms sometimes make mistake.
maybe people, personelle who use 443 in it's designed intended caliber gov't police, military, contractor security, which is 9x21mm gyurza, an ++ overpressure AP caliber, have knowledge specifics. Even perhaps experience working with baikal.
There also variant of 443 basis that uses explosive containment piston driven silent ammuntion.
443 and 446 are different pistols, as explained, non interchangeable.
most 446 viking sold under marketing for export are polymer frames, designed.
446 also is in a few models, different designations, that are only rubber bullet, and under kinetic energy joules measurement of projectiles, for not licenses personal defense weapon, which is not firearm in many countries.
Last edited:
Not sure what are you doing...It sounds like you are not in Canada, anyway I will try one more time… the OP first question was where to get a spare magazine for MP-443…The short answer is they are not available in Canada through the retailers because we the importer of Baikal pistols could not get any magazines (as the separate items) out of Russia.
MP-443 in 9x19 is allowed for import to Canada and has an FRT record. However, the manufacturer cannot sell for export defence-related and dual-use products. It has to go through Russian intermediary government agency Rosoboronexport . This middleman is quite expensive and interested only in significant quantities and mostly government to government sales. Therefore I was curious if we actually have any MP-443 in Canada.
MP-446 and MP-446C can be exported directly by the manufacturer. We imported MP-446C to Canada until April of 2014 when the economic sanctions were put in place.
Magazines being a dual-use product where never allowed for direct export by the manufacturer. The loophole was to export the pistol out of Russia with any number of magazines as one set. We exploited this and imported some steel frame pistols with 6 magazines. There are may be the owners in Canada who would want to sell some of theirs magazines. That is why I said the only way to obtain a spare magazine in Canada is to buy it privately, e.g. on EE forum.
One should be aware there are several modifications has been done to the magazines over the years of production. At least two different types came through our imports that are not interchangeable. In particular the latest MP446C import came with magazines that are longer and have different catch notches. To accommodate these magazines the slides and ejectors were also modified.
MP-443 in 9x19 and MP-446C in 9x19 (at least in the export form) are essentially the same pistol. While MP-443 was adopted for hotter 7N21 cartridge, the MP-446C was made for sport and export and officially approved for IPSC production. Most of parts are interchangeable between different generations. All parts are interchangeable between the same generation. Both pistols are available in polymer and steel frame versions. Many modifications were made to both pistols over the years, as a result some parts are not interchangeable even within the same model but different year of production; good examples are magazines, barrels, slide stop levers, slides, ejectors. Saying that MP-446C is a weak pistol is totally wrong. According to C.I.P. requirements each pistol has to be proof tested at 130% of a max pressure before it can be sold.
MP-443 in 9x21 Gyurza (not to be confused with 9x21 IWI) was never commercially imported to Canada. It has no FRT record. Even though the MP-443 in 9x21 Gyurza was known much earlier, the manufacturer officially showcased the pistol in this calibre in 2013 at Russian expo. Though the pistol would be legal in Canada, it cannot be exported out of Russia other than through Rosoboronexport. The 9x21 Gyurza ammunition is prohibited in Canada. 7N28 soft core FMJ could be an exempt, but I doubt any of the importers will be interested in certifying this cartridge with NRCAN knowing there are no firearms in Canada for this cartridge and the cartridge cannot be exported out of Russia being not a civilian product.
All other variants such as CO2, rubber bullet, etc. are not of any interest.
As per your statement the magazines are readily available in western Europe and USA, they are not. None of the models of this gun may be distributed in the United States due to the USA import regulations. These guns are not available in USA. We had several European owners asking for spare magazines, as the magazines are not available there. The latest inquiry was less than three weeks ago from Estonia.
I hope we are clear now.
MP-443 in 9x19 is allowed for import to Canada and has an FRT record. However, the manufacturer cannot sell for export defence-related and dual-use products. It has to go through Russian intermediary government agency Rosoboronexport . This middleman is quite expensive and interested only in significant quantities and mostly government to government sales. Therefore I was curious if we actually have any MP-443 in Canada.
MP-446 and MP-446C can be exported directly by the manufacturer. We imported MP-446C to Canada until April of 2014 when the economic sanctions were put in place.
Magazines being a dual-use product where never allowed for direct export by the manufacturer. The loophole was to export the pistol out of Russia with any number of magazines as one set. We exploited this and imported some steel frame pistols with 6 magazines. There are may be the owners in Canada who would want to sell some of theirs magazines. That is why I said the only way to obtain a spare magazine in Canada is to buy it privately, e.g. on EE forum.
One should be aware there are several modifications has been done to the magazines over the years of production. At least two different types came through our imports that are not interchangeable. In particular the latest MP446C import came with magazines that are longer and have different catch notches. To accommodate these magazines the slides and ejectors were also modified.
MP-443 in 9x19 and MP-446C in 9x19 (at least in the export form) are essentially the same pistol. While MP-443 was adopted for hotter 7N21 cartridge, the MP-446C was made for sport and export and officially approved for IPSC production. Most of parts are interchangeable between different generations. All parts are interchangeable between the same generation. Both pistols are available in polymer and steel frame versions. Many modifications were made to both pistols over the years, as a result some parts are not interchangeable even within the same model but different year of production; good examples are magazines, barrels, slide stop levers, slides, ejectors. Saying that MP-446C is a weak pistol is totally wrong. According to C.I.P. requirements each pistol has to be proof tested at 130% of a max pressure before it can be sold.
MP-443 in 9x21 Gyurza (not to be confused with 9x21 IWI) was never commercially imported to Canada. It has no FRT record. Even though the MP-443 in 9x21 Gyurza was known much earlier, the manufacturer officially showcased the pistol in this calibre in 2013 at Russian expo. Though the pistol would be legal in Canada, it cannot be exported out of Russia other than through Rosoboronexport. The 9x21 Gyurza ammunition is prohibited in Canada. 7N28 soft core FMJ could be an exempt, but I doubt any of the importers will be interested in certifying this cartridge with NRCAN knowing there are no firearms in Canada for this cartridge and the cartridge cannot be exported out of Russia being not a civilian product.
All other variants such as CO2, rubber bullet, etc. are not of any interest.
As per your statement the magazines are readily available in western Europe and USA, they are not. None of the models of this gun may be distributed in the United States due to the USA import regulations. These guns are not available in USA. We had several European owners asking for spare magazines, as the magazines are not available there. The latest inquiry was less than three weeks ago from Estonia.
I hope we are clear now.
If you are a big "Secret Agent" in Russia that can sign out firearms and...blah, blah, blah... what possible relevance does any of this have to a posting on a Canadian firearms site? Why even bother bringing up what you can do (or did do) in Russia? I hear then even have AK-47's available for "sign-out".... but that is in Russia... of course. I hear things are a little bit different over there
The question was about what is available in Canada. What is available to police or military in Russia has all of relevance to this discussion as... what rocks are available for sign-out on the moon.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I got to play with a "Viking" a few years back. Nice pistol, like many Russian equipment, it seems overbuilt.
For a reason or another, I was certain the 443 and 446 were pretty much the same pistol, but with different markings... to comply with some bureaucratic requirements.
Don't have a clue where you'd get spare magazines for it... But I've got spare springs and firing pins
For a reason or another, I was certain the 443 and 446 were pretty much the same pistol, but with different markings... to comply with some bureaucratic requirements.
Don't have a clue where you'd get spare magazines for it... But I've got spare springs and firing pins
i own a Baikal Viking MP 446 in all steel frame . I have tried to compare both guns From the pictures of MP 443 available on internet and what i feel from that comparison is that Baikal Viking MP 446 all steel version and MP 443 yarigin Pya are the same pistol pin by pin and notch by notch with the exception of front sight post and markings . I dont know about the capability of Baikal Viking MP 446 all steel version to shoot very hot AP Russian rounds but i can say for sure that it eats up every 9x19 round i feed it
After getting a verbal assurance from the manufacturer that the gun is not different from 443, I shot 200 rounds of Federal 124 gr. Hydra_Shok +p+ through my metal frame. The pistol liked them a lot and asked for more...No any issues. Since then it ate more than 4k of various brands regular loads and occasionally Gold Dot +P 124gr JHP. So far all good. Note the ammo box on the picture
