I'm in the market for a 45-70, and wondering about the difference in velocity between the guide gun and the full 22" barrel on the marlin guns. Does anyone have any data on the FPS difference between the two barrels for something for me to consider when buying (I.e. is the extra length worthwhile)?
Marlin Guide 18.5" vs Marlin 22" Barrel velocity
- Thread starter jaybe14
- Start date
^ this.
With the big bullets coming out of the 45-70, the slight difference in velocity isn't going to affect the overall energy enough to make any kind of a difference. And if you are chasing velocity out of one, once you get into the top end, shooting it isn't for the faint of heart. A lot of 45-70's hit the EE after just a few rounds because of it
With the big bullets coming out of the 45-70, the slight difference in velocity isn't going to affect the overall energy enough to make any kind of a difference. And if you are chasing velocity out of one, once you get into the top end, shooting it isn't for the faint of heart. A lot of 45-70's hit the EE after just a few rounds because of it
Trimmer 905
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Bearing in mind that .45/70 is a short range round with devastating power enough to drop a Griz out to 100M,any difference in velocity is negligible,at best. Some one mentioned about excessive recoil,but,if you can handle a 12ga.,you won't have any issue. Did I mention I'm a Marlin fan? LOL
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Trimmer you might be surprised how mediocre the .45-70 is in your dropping a grizzly scenario. It penetrates but it's just not fast enough to properly shock, even the .458 Win was considered marginal for a long time with early loads for good reason; too slow. A 22" barrel isn't fixing that. This won't jive with popular opinion of the .45-70. It kills stuff, absolutely, but dropping stuff in its tracks? It's likely worse off than a good .30-06 load.
Sorry, I have killed more bears than I can remember, and seen even more killed. Seen a few animals taken with the 45-70, too, and if what you mean is "dead right there" kills, that is just not the way the 45/70 kills big game, even at much closer range.
Ted
Considering the 45-70 has more ft-lbs of energy to deliver within 100m than a 30-06 I'm quite sceptical of this. I would also imagine the larger calibre helps creating a larger exit hole which means more blood loss quickly if the vitals are not hit. That being said I'm interested to hear what you have to say on the matter.
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Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Nope... It isn't about foot lbs. And the difference between a .308 and a .458 hole is just over an 1/8"- the animals aren't noticing. We like to think of a .458 hole as being huge, but it's still small, as is a .30. What that .458 hole allows is more bullet weight, the trouble is the .45-70 just can't move that weight fast enough in the conventional weight range for the cartridge to shock well. A .270 will produce more dramatic dead right there's than a .45-70, just don't try to explain that to the Internet.
Again everybody here will tell you a .45-70 kills. What it doesn't do a very impressive job of is shocking game and "stopping it in its tracks". It is not the hammer people think it is, it's actually a rather underwhelming cartridge with a poor trajectory and uninspiring terminal performance. But people are really attracted to it. And to get right to the point and address the claim that brought me into this, it's not a great choice for Grizzly hunting; it's a rather mediocre one.
Again everybody here will tell you a .45-70 kills. What it doesn't do a very impressive job of is shocking game and "stopping it in its tracks". It is not the hammer people think it is, it's actually a rather underwhelming cartridge with a poor trajectory and uninspiring terminal performance. But people are really attracted to it. And to get right to the point and address the claim that brought me into this, it's not a great choice for Grizzly hunting; it's a rather mediocre one.
I've yet to do it myself, and live on the bald Prairie so likely never will in the big bears, but have read the stories of a 4570 bullet breaking both shoulders of big, heavy animals. Given those reports, it seems like it is hardly a mediocre choice, especially when carrying a light, handy lever gun.
You are correct on hydrostatic shock, but I'll take heavy bullets and broken bones. It's why I load one of my 30 06 rifles with 220 grainers too.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Your .30-06 with a stout bullet is every bit as impressive through the shoulders and a heck of a lot more well rounded. Plenty of light handy .30-06s out there, too. Trust me, I fought it for years subscribing to slow and heavy, but ultimately after seeing an ever increasing volume of game die, including grizzlies amongst tougher things, I'm forced to accept there's a reason speed took over the sporting arms game. It works. Better. 
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
Speed took over the sporting arms game because of marketing hype, plain and simple. Like with boats, cars & planes, the fast & flashy sell more toys. Me, I'll stick with the rifles and loads that work best for what I use 'em for, and the 45-70 ain't failed me yet.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sadly not referring to that kind of speed, just the sort they discovered at the dawn of the 20th century works wonders in comparison to the cartridges of the 19th, even those stuffed with modern powders. Believe me if a client wanted to use his .45-70 to hunt Grizzly I'd say fine, but I'd also do my best to talk him into a better option, for many exists and are readily available to boot. You'll kill them it just won't be as impressive as even just a .270.
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
The last fat bear I dumped was with this. The 525gr. Lyman cast projectile severed the spine behind the skull at a leisurely 1100 fps. @ 30 yds.
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As much as I am enamoured with short barreled levers that fling heavy bullets my experience with the 45-70 on game aligns with what Ardent is saying. I had one mule deer doe that took two 405gr JSP's through boiler without much reaction. A third through the shoulders put her down.
Punchy with good penetration, but not a bang flop cartridge. Even more so with hardcast.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Agreed, they'll kill anything you put them through reliably, but not terribly impressively. It's no hammer of Thor like many believe it is, and crumpling grizzlies is not its place despite how many are purchased with that in mind.
