Ethically speaking . . .

H

heronfish

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Would you take a 38-55 on a deer hunt?
I ask this after reading the latest 45/70 thread and the knowledge that a slower bullet is a slower killer of game.

Are we doing our quarry a dis service by not using the most powerful rifle we can? I already down several more powerful, faster rifles and could use any of them.
 
"the knowledge that a slower bullet is a slower killer of game" - you write that as if it is a fact, instead of something drifting about on the internet.....
 
I have no doubt that my old 38-55 will kill game, I was attempting to ask if it's ethical not to take out the most powerful rifle I own.
Given that I shoot a cast bullet at a moderate speed, death is likely to be delayed compared to modern magnum rounds moving a jacketed bullet at at least double the speed.

Now, I'm going to do it anyway, just wondered what the opinion was.
 
My 38-55 kills deer just as dead, just as fast as my .300wsm does. Just dont shoot things in the ass and expect a clean kill.
I have shot deer with everything from a .223 (legal in B.C.) to a .338 win mag and taking an ethical shot is most important.
By using the logic that you must use the fastest round for the quickest kill, you would be telling alot of bow hunters that they are unethical and that is completely untrue and I'm not giving up my bow either.
 
Ethics are a very personal thing....

I have a personal hate on for the 30-30, always have.... Don't like lever guns much either... Let's call it a biproduct of spending too much time in my younger days dogging deer out to old timers with 30-30 levers and witnessing way too many wounded deer, which I was then left to track and finish off..... When I first joined here, I went off the rails on a big rant about how I didn't think the 30-30 was an "ethical" choice based on the fact that we have so many "better" cartridges available for use now and the 30-30 only became popular because the rifles were cheap and ammo was everywhere..... Quite frankly, I made myself look like a complete tool ranting on about how crappy the 30-30 was.....

Fast forward 5 years and not much has changed (except for the fact that I try not to look like a complete tool most days)... I still don't like the 30-30, even though I reload now and could get one up to respectable velocity.... I still don't like lever guns much based on those experiences in my past and I don't ever see that changing.....

What has changed, mostly due to interactions with good members here, is that I can acknowledge that a 30-30 is perfectly capable of taking a deer cleanly and ethically if used within it's limits and with proper shot placement and it is some people's choice.... I have come to the personal realization that it is not up to me to define what is ethical or not ethical for anyone but myself.... I do have lines in the sand like most.... Taking low percentage shots being one... Perhaps if those old timers had taken the time to place their shots properly and not fire off 3-4 shots in the direction of a deer presenting a Texas heart shot I would feel differently on 30-30... To me, there is no argument that can be made that taking a low percentage shot is ethical....

So, with the 38-55 being legal for deer, I would turn your question back to you.... Do you feel the 38-55 is sufficient?, Are you confident that it will kill with a well placed shot knowing your own shooting skill? Are you willing to hunt within it's limits?..... If your answer to all 3 is yes, then I say fill your boots.....
 
knowledge that a slower bullet is a slower killer of game.
Click to expand...

It's more complicated that. The effect of hydrostatic shock is not reliable because there has been some studies done by the US government that debunked it and others confirming it.
What should truly matters is what you are the most comfortable to shoot with and which one do you shoot more accurately.
 
heronfish said:
I have no doubt that my old 38-55 will kill game, I was attempting to ask if it's ethical not to take out the most powerful rifle I own.
Given that I shoot a cast bullet at a moderate speed, death is likely to be delayed compared to modern magnum rounds moving a jacketed bullet at at least double the speed.

Now, I'm going to do it anyway, just wondered what the opinion was.
Click to expand...

a bigger rifle does NOT mean it is more deadly .

lots of guys out there with their "look at me I got a magnum " rifles who can't hit a thing ..... sometimes the safest place to stand is where they are aiming :D

where ethics come in to play is being proficient with the firearm in your hands , regardless of its cartridge .

skill , ability and good judgement first and foremost . rifle choice is a factor of good judgement and involves knowing the rifle and its limitations .
 
Dake21 said:
It's more complicated that. The effect of hydrostatic shock is not reliable because there has been some studies done by the US government that debunked it and others confirming it.
What should truly matters is what you are the most comfortable to shoot with and which one do you shoot more accurately.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

I am comfortable with that gun using the pie plate at 100 yards test, but it is far from my most accurate mostly on account that it is irons vs. A scope.
 
In the meat hunting days the 38-55 was probably the most popular moose killer out there.
I once was at the winter scene where a hunter had killed two moose with his 38-55 with two shots. I could see, by the streak of cut black hair in the snow behind, where each moose had been standing when it got hit. Neither moose got more than twenty feet!
 
heronfish said:
Would you take a 38-55 on a deer hunt?
I ask this after reading the latest 45/70 thread and the knowledge that a slower bullet is a slower killer of game.

Are we doing our quarry a dis service by not using the most powerful rifle we can? I already down several more powerful, faster rifles and could use any of them.
Click to expand...

The 38-55 killed deer before the 300 WSM. Therefore it is actually a faster deer killer.

You're welcome.
 
If you are prone to internet research it is fairly well agreed in many circles that a big bore with a wide flat nose meplat is a dandy killer. My 444 dropped moose with outstanding performance. There is a different terminal factor as compared to hydrostatic shock. I believe it has to do with massive blood pressure drop and a game animal that one can eat up to the hole. The 38-55 is a potent killer and I would not have a personal ethics problem with hunting moose with one, just realize the limitations, 125-150 yards. If I still hunted a 32 Special within 100 yards is my acceptable ethical limit for moose. The 444 is gone to a close friend who hunts.
 
heronfish said:
Would you take a 38-55 on a deer hunt?
I ask this after reading the latest 45/70 thread and the knowledge that a slower bullet is a slower killer of game.

Are we doing our quarry a dis service by not using the most powerful rifle we can? I already down several more powerful, faster rifles and could use any of them.
Click to expand...

I think the point was that the 45-70 isn't ideal for stopping something that wants to do you harm, not that it won't kill things.
 
Superbrad said:
Ethics are a very personal thing....

I have a personal hate on for the 30-30, always have.... Don't like lever guns much either... Let's call it a biproduct of spending too much time in my younger days dogging deer out to old timers with 30-30 levers and witnessing way too many wounded deer, which I was then left to track and finish off..... When I first joined here, I went off the rails on a big rant about how I didn't think the 30-30 was an "ethical" choice based on the fact that we have so many "better" cartridges available for use now and the 30-30 only became popular because the rifles were cheap and ammo was everywhere..... Quite frankly, I made myself look like a complete tool ranting on about how crappy the 30-30 was.....

Fast forward 5 years and not much has changed (except for the fact that I try not to look like a complete tool most days)... I still don't like the 30-30, even though I reload now and could get one up to respectable velocity.... I still don't like lever guns much based on those experiences in my past and I don't ever see that changing.....

What has changed, mostly due to interactions with good members here, is that I can acknowledge that a 30-30 is perfectly capable of taking a deer cleanly and ethically if used within it's limits and with proper shot placement and it is some people's choice.... I have come to the personal realization that it is not up to me to define what is ethical or not ethical for anyone but myself.... I do have lines in the sand like most.... Taking low percentage shots being one... Perhaps if those old timers had taken the time to place their shots properly and not fire off 3-4 shots in the direction of a deer presenting a Texas heart shot I would feel differently on 30-30... To me, there is no argument that can be made that taking a low percentage shot is ethical....

So, with the 38-55 being legal for deer, I would turn your question back to you.... Do you feel the 38-55 is sufficient?, Are you confident that it will kill with a well placed shot knowing your own shooting skill? Are you willing to hunt within it's limits?..... If your answer to all 3 is yes, then I say fill your boots.....
Click to expand...


good post.

having cleaned up this forum in the past, educating some of the blowhards, know it alls, and sermonizers, this is good advice.
 
As mentioned, I think the most important component to choosing a hunting caliber, past it being legal and having the energy required to make a kill, is that you're comfortable and confident with shooting it at Hunting distances. I take my Rossi 92 in. 44 magnum deer hunting because I shoot that rifle a lot and I'm confident in my ability with it, as well as its ability to cleanly kill a deer or bear. I know that with my hand loads at distances out to 100 yards, I can put all my shots in about a 6 inch group from a standing position, even under some pressure and it has the energy to do the job when it gets there. But with my other hunting rifles I'm not as proficient yet, so I always grab the .44 mag. The .38-55 is plenty of gun for deer, that's not an issue, sounds like you shoot it well, saying you can hold your shots in a pie plate at 100 yards, so that leaves one ethical issue. Shot placement, If you make sure to only take a sure shot, then you have nothing to worry about. Like Superbrad said, it comes down to you and how you feel about any given cartridge, if you have any misgivings about the cartridge itself or your ability with the gun, your not going to be as capable in the field as you would be with a gun and caliber that is tried and true. Just what I've personally experienced. Skokie.
 
blueoval56 said:
As long as you are proficiently accurate and keep you shots within ~150 yards the 38-55 is plenty ethical.
Click to expand...

This.^^

For my own use, I'd stay inside of 100 yds. with 'er. Having taken numerous critters with the .375 Winchester loaded down to .38-55 levels, I've had no game lost & I always strive to ensure that the critters are not aware of my presence before & after the shot.

I've seen to many folks jump up and rush toward the deer that they hit which made the buggers go into high gear to flee the scene, even when the bullet clipped the heart.
 
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