Colt Python question

[Gillis2]

Hi all,
Let's begin to say that in my actual collection are only 2 Wheel guns and they are both Smith and Wesson ( 586 and 17 ) I really like them both. BUT in the future, I might add a higher end revolver. Looking ath Korth, Manhurin and Pythons. The Korth's might be a bit too pricey for me. I hear that the Manhurin are built like thanks and can withstand more than a 100K rounds. What about the legenday Pythons. I know they are sought after and stunningly ###y but are they also built like tanks and made to withstand thousand and thousands of hot .357 rounds?
To all the more knowledgeable people here, forgive me if this is kind of a noob question.
Thanks for your patience.

Gilbert

 

[graydog]

They are not built like tanks. They are not even built as well as your S&W's are.

The only reason they cost so much is that people are foolish enough to pay it.

That being said they are very nice to shoot and work well but will not take the punishment that your Smiths will.

Just my two cents worth.

Graydog

 

[Twisted Canuck]

Oh boy, that question could open a can of worms here. I will preface by saying I own a number of Pythons, only one of which I shoot, and quite a few S&W revolvers (J,K,L,N Frame). There is a strong 'opinion' that the Pythons wouldn't handle lots of hot .357 loads, and were prone to timing/lockup issues if fed a constant diet like this. There are also lots of Python owners who will refute this and say 'I have ###xx # of rounds of hot .357 through it and it's as good as new....'. I personally have no firsthand knowledge to contribute on the matter, as my Custom Shop Python was custom ordered set up for Bullseye shooting, and while it has had thousands of rounds of 158 gr SWC .38 special through it, it probably hasn't had 200 rounds of .357. I am not the original owner so can't know the exact number, but those are ballpark. My Python is still perfectly timed and shoots like a dream. My gut feeling is that if fed a constant diet of hot .357, you would run into trouble sooner than you would with say a Model 27 or 28, and for sure before a Ruger as we all know the Rugers are built to take a beating. The internet is full of arguments pro and con on the Python regarding this very issue, but I'd have to say that there seems to be more who claim it is not as rugged and maintenance free in the long term. Tuning them also takes a bit more knowledge and know how as well. We do have a member (JJB) who is very adept at tuning them, so I'm sure he will be weighing in with his experience on the matter. We will probably hear from the naysayers as well, who are die hard S&W owners and may or may not have ever had a Python.....but I would never say a Python is 'built like a tank'. Probably not even as rugged as my Model 19 K frames?

Edit: as per Graydogs contention that the Pythons are 'not even built as well' as the S&W....I'd argue that they are very well built and put together. But that doesn't mean as tough as a S&W or a Ruger.....A Porsche 911 is not as tought as an F250, but it is sure better built and more precision. You see the difference? Pythons are a quality gun no matter what, but a GP100 is a much tougher beast, and not nearly as pretty, or precise.

 

[Master-G]

Pythons are beautifully built but their action is not the strongest and is susceptible to timing issues.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Hi all,
Let's begin to say that in my actual collection are only 2 Wheel guns and they are both Smith and Wesson ( 586 and 17 ) I really like them both. BUT in the future, I might add a higher end revolver. Looking ath Korth, Manhurin and Pythons. The Korth's might be a bit too pricey for me. I hear that the Manhurin are built like thanks and can withstand more than a 100K rounds. What about the legenday Pythons. I know they are sought after and stunningly ###y but are they also built like tanks and made to withstand thousand and thousands of hot .357 rounds?
To all the more knowledgeable people here, forgive me if this is kind of a noob question.
Thanks for your patience.

Gilbert

Remember that the Python was first intended to be a target .38 special revolver so it could compete with the competition's target revolvers like the S&W K38 pre model 14. Colt already had the model 3-5-7 in their lineup, but they decided to drop the 3-5-7 model and switched the Pyhton's vocation to accept the venerable Magnum cartridge so it could now compete with the pre model 27 and 28 Highway Patrolman Smith & Wesson's as LE duty revolvers (Colt also made the Python in .38 special in limited numbers, those were specifically intended as target revolvers).

As ruggedness, the Python is a sturdy revolver, it can and will handle full power Magnum ammo to an extent, a steady diet of very hot Magnums will be hard on the revolver, it will use the major components prematurely and timing will also be affected by this. Now, a steady diet of hot magnum ammo will affect just about any revolver but the difference in let's say a S&W is that the later is easy to time, tuned and get replacement parts for, whether it's a 1935's Registered Magnum or a late production 686. A vast majority of replacements parts for the Colt are getting pretty scarce and competent smiths that can do a Python make over are nearly non-existent.

While not to start a Colt Vs. Smith & Wesson debate, I personally think that both an N frame S&W and wrist will handle a steady diet of full power Magnums a lot better than the Python, that's JMHO tho, I'm sure others will have very different opinions on the subject.

 

[Harry Callahan]

Problems with the K frame and the .357 was that the top strap of the frame will show flame cutting after a steady diet of Magnums, it can also crack the forcing cone since the small K frame 19 and 66 was initially design to shoot .38's.

 

[Twisted Canuck]

Problems with the K frame and the .357 was that the top strap of the frame will show flame cutting after a steady diet of Magnums, it can also crack the forcing cone since the small K frame 19 and 66 was initially design to shoot .38's.

I was thinking about it after I posted it, and have to agree with you. While the frame is still plenty strong, the flame cutting will be more pronounced. Early 19s were more prone to this apparently, later metallurgy ameliorated the effect somewhat....from what I have read anyway. So much has been written, one has to wonder how much is myth, opinion, or fact. I do think you are right on with your assessment of the Pythons. As for available parts for the S&W N frames...please sir, do you have a nickel barrel for a 27?

 

[Gillis2]

So guys, if I understand well, my Smith 586 which is a L frame if I am not mistaken was more built to handle a steady diet of .357 than a Python ?

Thanks

Gilbert

 

[Twisted Canuck]

So guys, if I understand well, my Smith 586 which is a L frame if I am not mistaken was more built to handle a steady diet of .357 than a Python ?

Thanks

Gilbert

Depends who you ask....lol. I don't know if the 586 is stronger, I would actually think the Python has an equally robust frame but a more sensitive disposition. Best answer is 'maybe'. I do know that if fed the same diet, and they had similar rates of 'failure' to timing, the 586 would be easier to get repaired. How's that for not answering your question?

 

[gdawg]

Hey Gilbert - I'm sure you checked out some of the often cited Michael Zeleny's research when buying the Swiss P210. He has also written extensively on the mid-frame 357s from Korth, Manurhin, Colt and S&W. e.g. http://larvatus.livejournal.com/616206.html. The wild card is the Korth National standard. They will be selling for the same price as the Manurhin i.e. 3k+, so less than half the price of the Korth Combat because they do not require as much hand fitting. Not a lot of info yet. Some mixed impressions of prototypes from Shot Show, but those issues have apparently be addressed. For a higher end 357 I kind of like the Manurhin MR73 given their heritage, but they are a little homely imo (not a huge issue and obviously a personal perf). If I was looking for a collector and an occasional shooter, I'd have no issues springing for a nice Python though - preference given to earlier models. There is an 8" Python in my future once I have built up enough points with my wife ;-)

 

[Gillis2]

Thanks Graham for your answer. You always manage to complete my info.
Twisted Canuck, you have given me more answer than you think.

Thanks to all of you guys. That new info rules out Pythons for me. I will be looking at more infos on Korths and Manhurins and most of all, save my money - lol

Gilbet

Gilbert

 

[Hoakster]

All of this aside, there is still an inherent 'beauty' in the Python that few, if any, other guns possess.
I know my GP100 will pound nails and still keep shooting, but it'll never be a 'Snake'.

Somewhere down the road, there is a 6" Nickel in my future.
"...and I will hug him and squeeze him and call him George."

 

[caramel]

For myself it's the Korth combat 5.25 inch all the way... JP.

 

[sailor723]

I thought I'd settled on looking for a MR73 but I'm still drawn to a Python.

 

[Rod]

S&W and Colt revolvers I've owned for many years without problems. . N-frames and K-frames, both mostly pre-models, all have stood up very well. . My 3 Colt pythons have also stood very well with no problems at all with timing.

The Colt revolvers have their "bank vault lock-up" which is unique to them. As the trigger begins to be touched off the hand locks the cylinder firmly into alignment and this differs from S&W revolvers. . I learned, early on, to run my Colts wet. . meaning to keep the star and hand lubricated with light oil. . Not to the extreme, but just enough to help eliminate wear. . Run the Colt revolver dry and it may wear prematurely requiring the hand to be stretched. . Another unique feature with the Python is the tapered rifled barrel that closes the tolerance to improve accuracy.. Quite a few LEO's, in the US, used the Colt Python as their duty revolver and run many 357 rounds down the barrel with the bluing and stocks all worn but shooting like a hot damn and no timing issues.

My S&W revolvers are a pure joy to own and shoot. . I really admire the pre-models with 5 screws and diamond stocks especially the two I have Coke Bottle stocks on. The early N-frames are something else with pre-model 27's giving the Python a run for it's money with fit and finish. . The matt blued M28's a great revolver in their own rite. . K-frames, again pre-model 5 screws, are beauties as well. . My newest S&W revolvers are two I bought new, in 1976 or 75, a M19-3 and an 18-3. . The 19-3 was designed to shoot 158 gr. 357's, but not the lighter 125 gr. bullets with hot powder because the lighter shorter bullets sometimes allow the hot powder to escape at the barrel cylinder gap and may cut the forcing cone and front of the cylinder. . Use the 158 gr. bullet and unique similar type powders and everything is good. .

Colt Pythons, and other snake revolvers, command a high price because they are not made any more with no plans to build them in the future. Both S&W and Colt revolvers are true American Beauties that excelled and improved as a result of competition between the two companies and I'd hate to live on the difference between the two.

 

[plinker 777]

Hi all,
Let's begin to say that in my actual collection are only 2 Wheel guns and they are both Smith and Wesson ( 586 and 17 ) I really like them both. BUT in the future, I might add a higher end revolver. Looking ath Korth, Manhurin and Pythons. The Korth's might be a bit too pricey for me. I hear that the Manhurin are built like thanks and can withstand more than a 100K rounds. What about the legenday Pythons. I know they are sought after and stunningly ###y but are they also built like tanks and made to withstand thousand and thousands of hot .357 rounds?
To all the more knowledgeable people here, forgive me if this is kind of a noob question.
Thanks for your patience.

Gilbert

Padewan...it's time to move up to the venerable .44 Rem Mag. 629.

 

[Twisted Canuck]

All of this aside, there is still an inherent 'beauty' in the Python that few, if any, other guns possess.
I know my GP100 will pound nails and still keep shooting, but it'll never be a 'Snake'.

Somewhere down the road, there is a 6" Nickel in my future.
"...and I will hug him and squeeze him and call him George."

Well, when your someday Lotto 6/49 comes along, give me a jingle. I've got your George unfired with box and papers sitting in my safe....I don't hug and squeeze it without gloves on.

 

[Johnnyjellybean]

A properly tuned Python is DEFINITELY just as tough or even tougher than a S&W. Way fewer moving parts. I love them both and work on them both. I'm talking from lots of experience. 30 minutes to fix the timing on a Python....... 3-4 hours on a S&W.

They are not built like tanks. They are not even built as well as your S&W's are.

The only reason they cost so much is that people are foolish enough to pay it.

That being said they are very nice to shoot and work well but will not take the punishment that your Smiths will.

Just my two cents worth.

Graydog

 

[Harry Callahan]

A properly tuned Python is DEFINITELY just as tough or even tougher than a S&W. Way fewer moving parts. I love them both and work on them both. I'm talking from lots of experience. 30 minutes to fix the timing on a Python....... 3-4 hours on a S&W.

I'm not with you on that one Steve even tho I know that you have tons of experience with the snakes, I do have a bit on both and read you 3-4 Hours to time a S&W? Are you serions Steve? I will do it to any S&W in about 20-30 minutes once you know what you're doing. All you need is a replacement oversize hand, a file to set the groove one the new wider hand and a punch to help on the trigger spring tension to fit the hand.

In regards to number of parts the Colt as less but this is overall not just moving parts. Remember that within reason, the number of parts does not relate to either ease of maintenance or reliability/durability. As stated the Colt has fewer parts, but their interrelationship result in a complexity that confuses gunsmiths to this day. The S&W has more parts, but each part performs one function, making problem diagnosis and correction easier.

 

[Johnnyjellybean]

I would NEVER file the frame groove wider on a S&W. Never mind a vintage collectable!! What happens if it goes out of time again?? Will youi go to a 2X oversize?? Nope.... I fit the hand to the existing frame slot which calls for thinning the hand. Tell me you can do that in 30 minutes!!
At this point,to me the timing on a Python is child's play.

I'm not with you on that one Steve even tho I know that you have tons of experience with the snakes, I do have a bit on both and read you 3-4 Hours to time a S&W? Are you serions Steve? I will do it to any S&W in about 20-30 minutes once you know what you're doing. All you need is a replacement oversize hand, a file to set the groove one the new wider hand and a punch to help on the trigger spring tension to fit the hand.

In regards to number of parts the Colt as less but this is overall not just moving parts. Remember that within reason, the number of parts does not relate to either ease of maintenance or reliability/durability. As stated the Colt has fewer parts, but their interrelationship result in a complexity that confuses gunsmiths to this day. The S&W has more parts, but each part performs one function, making problem diagnosis and correction easier.