Funny but I spoke to smellie about this thread last night.
He said he don't know enough to comment.
T2 Garand - Part 1
- Thread starter Dyspnea
- Start date
- Status
Funny but I spoke to smellie about this thread last night.
He said he don't know enough to comment.
I believe others have misread your post.
You said a "LOSS" in the $500 range not that they were $500 rifles.
Seams only fair. If you don't think this is a two tone, feel free to correct me.
I must say the rifle is very nice and tight. I would be happy to keep it at the two tone price.
Would you mind telling us what the markings are on the barrel.
That may be true but a lot of us on this forum miss his posts.
I don't think that's what he was saying....
He's saying that the people that bought these mislabeled T2's would be taking about a $500 bath when they try to sell them.
Anyway, you really should give Audet his $150 back as it's clearly not the same color. The $25 hand select wouldn't be out of line based on the condition of the rifle, but it was your decision to charge a premium for "color matching wood" which you failed to deliver.
For once in your life do the right thing and don't be a #### to a customer that eagerly forked over close to $2000. He doesn't even care about it not being a T2, he just wanted a color matching rifle which he paid a hefty premium for.
I've tried and tried. It's a shame but he has doesn't want to play anymore.
PLEASE get your fact straight, the Korean rifles that you speak of, we have been involved for over 5 years, been inspected, price agreed on, etc,etc, but then again I'm certain you are aware of all the legal issues as to why they are not here....
BTW you are looking at over 200,000 Garands and Carbines.
It is more our loss than his.
Have you bothered to read the Marstar warranty, "not happy" return for a full refund ??
I hate to rain on your parade but the sales derived from CGN members would barely pay the wages for a couple of employees....
Not to say we do not appreciate the support of CGN members, but there is a whole othe world outside this forum
John
I know I've told him that. I'm grateful that I call the man my friend but honestly his writing belongs here where it can stay.
I can only write down and remember so much
I'm not clear how what I said is incorrect? I knew it was a lot but 200,000 is a LOT.
I never got in on the deal because I was away, not to mention sounds like they sold in under 5 minutes, but I really don't see anyone coming out with better deals on Garands????
It reminds me of the time my Father and his buddy bought a dozen cases of Lee Enfields, 2 decades later someone suggested that they were full of crap because they were all slap-togethers and because they couldn't say if the numbers were all matching. The truth was they did not want to take them out of the heavy wax paper and grease to look. Morale of the story: One man's gold may not be the same as the next man....
Some people are so critical of what a treasure is, that they have few to none.
It reminds me of the time my Father and his buddy bought a dozen cases of Lee Enfields, 2 decades later someone suggested that they were full of crap because they were all slap-togethers and because they couldn't say if the numbers were all matching. The truth was they did not want to take them out of the heavy wax paper and grease to look. Morale of the story: One man's gold may not be the same as the next man....
Some people are so critical of what a treasure is, that they have few to none.
Yes imagine a $300 Danish Breda M1 with the original SILE stock....few years ago, but I think the guy I bought it from paid $199.
Or what about a Beretta with Dane VAR barrel? And yes that is an ugly Boyds stock on it.... about $350 into that one.
Want a Garand for under $1600...well under $1600 actually, build one.
Tradex has barrels, bolts, and receiver's, should be about $500 for those 3 things. Pick everything else up slowly and a Boyds stock and you are good to go. You could do it for $1000 or less if you have patience.
Well I received my hand select one this afternoon and immediately set about compiling a photo essay of my rifle.
Not one but two cameras sh!t the bed on me, conspiring to curb my enthusiasm.
Not to be daunted, I went about it anyhow with my trusty iPhone.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/moosanah/slideshow/Milsurps/Marstar Garand
First up would be packaging:
Marstar shipped out my rifle in a hard case, concealed under cardboard.
Great eh? I thought so too, until I opened the case to see the two bayonets I also ordered poorly wrapped alongside the rifle.
Both bayonets no doubt bounced their way from Marstar to Calgary gleefully rubbing up against my otherwise as-new Italian queen, turning a Gorgious mint stockset into f&cking crap.
Honestly Gobsmacked at this point. 
John, if you read this, you need to grab someone's nuts over this and give them a good f&cking yank around your shop.
The stock is 'MT' marked at the right side rear of the butt, with an internal 'SILE' marking on inside barrel channel near the front sling swivel.
With the exception of a deep cut and gouge in the pistol grip, and areas where the bayonets and sling dry humped the wood, the stockset is/was new.
Metal:
Going over the rifle, around half of the parts are Italian P.B. marked, with the 7.62 clip insert marked B.R.
Notable exceptions to this is the Op rod which is S.A. And '7.62mm 2' Marked.
Other parts such as the Front sight and gas cylinder group, rod follower, and lower band are not marked.
The barrel has no identifying marks with the exception of a CIP over N near the muzzle, forward of the gas port.
The receiver is marked on the right side with 'Hauck .308Win ITDE CIP over N with a symbol that looks like three crowns in a shield BG'
There is a light slathering of cosmoline on most of the metal, with the exception of being none inside the barrel.
About mid way down the barrel there was considerable rust build up which looks as though there is considerable pitting after an initial cleaning.
After inspection, I'm not sure what to believe.
Some of the items are running counter to it being a parts gun - or if it is a put together, it was completed quite some time ago.
- Cosmo pretty much everywhere with none in the barrel - this is not a rifle that has just come out of long term storage that was done properly. The Cosmo that is on the exterior of the barrel and other spots have caked to a varnish. And the fact the rust in the barrel has created pitting points to both being there for some time.
- rear sight was incorrectly installed. Both windage and elevation are not working, leading me to believe it was slapped together by someone that didn't know what they were doing (with respect to a Garand sight).
I'd find it hard to believe that a rifle coming out of a factory like Beretta / Breda would incorrectly install a rear sight, but who knows.
- rear handguard showing signs of slight damage by the band, and the band is slightly contorted, most likely from an installation using improper tools.
If this rifle didn't have the shipping and barrel damage that it does, I'd say it was worth close to the advertised price (I think $1500 would not be too much of a stretch), but not worth the premium I paid for a Tipo 2.
I'm more disappointed with the damage to the stockset and barrel than I am over the origin, but regardless I'll be sending this one back.
Not one but two cameras sh!t the bed on me, conspiring to curb my enthusiasm.
Not to be daunted, I went about it anyhow with my trusty iPhone.
http://smg.photobucket.com/user/moosanah/slideshow/Milsurps/Marstar Garand
First up would be packaging:
Marstar shipped out my rifle in a hard case, concealed under cardboard.
Great eh? I thought so too, until I opened the case to see the two bayonets I also ordered poorly wrapped alongside the rifle.
Both bayonets no doubt bounced their way from Marstar to Calgary gleefully rubbing up against my otherwise as-new Italian queen, turning a Gorgious mint stockset into f&cking crap.
Honestly Gobsmacked at this point. John, if you read this, you need to grab someone's nuts over this and give them a good f&cking yank around your shop.The stock is 'MT' marked at the right side rear of the butt, with an internal 'SILE' marking on inside barrel channel near the front sling swivel.
With the exception of a deep cut and gouge in the pistol grip, and areas where the bayonets and sling dry humped the wood, the stockset is/was new.
Metal:
Going over the rifle, around half of the parts are Italian P.B. marked, with the 7.62 clip insert marked B.R.
Notable exceptions to this is the Op rod which is S.A. And '7.62mm 2' Marked.
Other parts such as the Front sight and gas cylinder group, rod follower, and lower band are not marked.
The barrel has no identifying marks with the exception of a CIP over N near the muzzle, forward of the gas port.
The receiver is marked on the right side with 'Hauck .308Win ITDE CIP over N with a symbol that looks like three crowns in a shield BG'
There is a light slathering of cosmoline on most of the metal, with the exception of being none inside the barrel.
About mid way down the barrel there was considerable rust build up which looks as though there is considerable pitting after an initial cleaning.
After inspection, I'm not sure what to believe.
Some of the items are running counter to it being a parts gun - or if it is a put together, it was completed quite some time ago.
- Cosmo pretty much everywhere with none in the barrel - this is not a rifle that has just come out of long term storage that was done properly. The Cosmo that is on the exterior of the barrel and other spots have caked to a varnish. And the fact the rust in the barrel has created pitting points to both being there for some time.
- rear sight was incorrectly installed. Both windage and elevation are not working, leading me to believe it was slapped together by someone that didn't know what they were doing (with respect to a Garand sight).
I'd find it hard to believe that a rifle coming out of a factory like Beretta / Breda would incorrectly install a rear sight, but who knows.
- rear handguard showing signs of slight damage by the band, and the band is slightly contorted, most likely from an installation using improper tools.
If this rifle didn't have the shipping and barrel damage that it does, I'd say it was worth close to the advertised price (I think $1500 would not be too much of a stretch), but not worth the premium I paid for a Tipo 2.
I'm more disappointed with the damage to the stockset and barrel than I am over the origin, but regardless I'll be sending this one back.
Last edited:
Oh, the irony.
According to the Marstar ad the Tipo 2 Garands were built by Terni Arsenal for the Italian Army in the early 1970s ( actually the dates on some of my Tipo2 barrels are 1967 and 1968 and the Tipo2 rifles were developed in the 1960s). The BM59 Garand derivative was the standard Italian rifle from the early 1960s with the Tipo 2s used in a reserve/second line role.
The Netherlands Army had adopted the FN FAL as their standard 7.62 NATO rifles in the early 1960s so why would they evaluate a 7.62 Garand well after this time, especially one that was built by the Italians on Danish Garand receivers which had not yet been surplussed? The Dutch angle is yet another twist on this.
I'm just trying to sort out the facts here and the chronology just doesn't add up.
I didn't take any photos of the barrel prior to scrubbing it out. The pitting is there though as it can be seen without needing a bore scope.
I kept to the facts on the rifle I received. Go troll someone else.
- Status
