T2 Garand - Part 1

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#1bcshooter said:
They locked the original thread in their forum as soon as they posted them for sale .
Now he's gone silent in this thread since people are calling him out on not being as advertised .
As others have said the product doesn't match what was advertised .
At least they have an Iron Clad guarantee so those disappointed can return their product .
Those looking to profit from these guns by reselling (so called rare rifle) in the EE are going to have a tough time.

PS I'm not yelling !
Just being BOLD ;)
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Why do I feel like the waters have just gotten murkier in the Canadian milsurp market? Personally I'm not into Garands or any non matching guns............its just all too sketchy.
 
Just got my matching wood, "hand pick (extra $25)" Garand T2. Turns out it's two tone wood color. Called Marstar, sent pictures, a friendly service guy confirmed it was a two tone and seamed worried what happened to my hand pick. I than received a generic e-mail telling me that if I wasn't satisfied with my surplus rifle I could return it.

So I talked to John, and I am waiting for a response.

The rifle looks quite nice, like new for a military rifle. If it wasn't for the wood, obviously not matching nor hand picked, I'd be happy.

Hope John can work something out.
 
Audet said:
Just got my matching wood, "hand pick (extra $25)" Garand T2. Turns out it's two tone wood color. Called Marstar, sent pictures, a friendly service guy confirmed it was a two tone and seamed worried what happened to my hand pick. I than received a generic e-mail telling me that if I wasn't satisfied with my surplus rifle I could return it.

So I talked to John, and I am waiting for a response.

The rifle looks quite nice, like new for a military rifle. If it wasn't for the wood, obviously not matching nor hand picked, I'd be happy.

Hope John can work something out.
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Be firm and clear with what it would take to make you happy enough to keep the rifle....that is if you want to keep it. They don't have any of what you ordered to replace yours with...
I'd be demanding the $150 difference + the $25 hand pick (plus tax of course), if they don't come through on that....2 things you paid for and never received, then send it back.
Post the pictures so we can see how much it's off.
 
Claven2 said:
I've tried to resist posting in this thread... but I just can't help it.

It's painfully obvious to me that these were not assembled in the 1970's or earlier as claimed in the ad type. Barrels with no military markings and modern etched markings hidden up under gas cylinder, as well as a mix of surface rusted parts assembled on cleanly parkerized actions speak to the possibility of very recently assembled parts guns with newly produced barrels and a hodge lodge of parts in various states/conditions. As far as I'm aware, the Danes did not release any FKF receivers of any flavour until the 1990's, and unless someone has proof otherwise, it's unlikely any of those were configured as 7.62x51 variants.

I'm not pretending I know what the story is here, but the retailer likely knows the background behind these guns and should disclose the origin of them to people who faithfully tried to purchase a real T2 that is not a recent commercial put-together.

Some people bought these as shooters and are likely happy. I'm sure they work fine. Those looking for a collectible deserve to know the true origin of these firearms to either prove or disprove their authenticity. It's a question of business ethics.

My $.02 worth.
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I should start building them. Mine at least won't have export marks that were undisclosed... Glad I didn't jump on one.
 
It would be good to see/hear more on the barrel markings. My Tipo 2 barrels, both the shortened and re-chambered US Springfield Armory ones and the purpose made SIAU barrels, have markings on the side of the barrel which can be seen when the op rod is retracted. Those engraved markings on the bottom of the barrel at the muzzle are strange ones indeed.

Also are they headspaced for 7.62 NATO or .308 Win? Military Tipo 2 rifles were chambered/headspaced for 7.62 NATO, yet the left side of the receivers on these are marked .308 Win???
 
So I just got off the phone with johnone. I post the following with his permission: these were built for the dutch on danish marked receivers around the time frame of when the dutch were evaluating different .308 platforms ie ar10 etc, to decide what to go with. These rifles were never shipped and went into storage. They went to Germany for a complete teardown, inspection and proofing.

I don't believe Marstar would lie and cheat people by passing off faked rifles. I do agree that their dissemination of information could be better but I do understand johnone when he speaks about the frustrations of dealing with certain types of people. If you have ever worked retail or sales you will know as I do what he means. There are a lot of good knowledgable people on this forum but it can be hard to tell them apart from some of the other "experts".

I appreciate all those who have added their knowledge to this thread and hope this post helps add to the information on these rifles.
 
That's not how his ad read. Secondly why does johnone need a go between to try and correct the record and not come on himself. Disingenous to say the least. I have bought a few long arms on his site this is leaving a bad taste. I will go elsewhere for my military rifles.
 
Can anyone with one of these take some pictures of the bolt markings? I want to see if they are s/n at all or just the drawing numbers. Danes were the only ones that did that BTW.
Also the Danes were pretty resourceful and started making their own M1 barrels in the 60's. I think if they wanted a .308 M1 they would have done it themselves before these were apparently made in the '70's as the Marstar ad claims.
I'm not an M1 historian, but there are many books out there dedicated to the M1 and cover the T2. You can believe the historians, or you can believe the salesman who's ad/description is riddled with errors already.
M1 Military barrels are dated BTW....all M1 military barrels.
Not only does his story insult the Danes who could have easily made their own 7.62nato barrels, but also the Italians who put together mismatched wood rifles with rusty parts to be presented as trials rifles....
 
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Audet said:
Just got my matching wood, "hand pick (extra $25)" Garand T2. Turns out it's two tone wood color. Called Marstar, sent pictures, a friendly service guy confirmed it was a two tone and seamed worried what happened to my hand pick. I than received a generic e-mail telling me that if I wasn't satisfied with my surplus rifle I could return it.

So I talked to John, and I am waiting for a response.

The rifle looks quite nice, like new for a military rifle. If it wasn't for the wood, obviously not matching nor hand picked, I'd be happy.

Hope John can work something out.
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Good day Mr Audet;
Since you have chosen an open forum to discuss this the members here deserve the full story.
yes you sent us pictures, it might help if you show them here so all can judge.... These are military rifles, the slight variance of the wood tone would normally
be quite acceptable, we came as close as we could.
As was explained to you after you e mailed us (three different boxes) and called four different people here (6 calls) in all cases you were told we will of course honor our warranty policy, you are not happy ?
return it for a refund. What more can we do ?
John
 
Hitzy said:
I didn't buy anything from Marstar for 10 years after the VZ58 fiasco....when they played semantics with what "NEW" meant with me when I got a well used rifle that kind of set the tone of where their priorities laid. Oh I got the "ironclad guarantee" speech, but I didn't really think that should excuse false advertising. I would have gladly exchanged for a NEW condition rifle, sadly they had none. I think you even fired it at EOHC and the trigger gremlin showed up, locking the trigger up solid....lol. I suspect if someone wants a T2 as advertised, they will get the same treatment...
Funny thing they did with the Hirtenberger recently too....they stated there was no way for them to tell the difference between the berdan or boxer primed, yet somehow once the berdan was all sold they could identify the boxer primed.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1294184-Reloadable-7-62x51-nato
Plus the locked T2 thread....looks like they know what's up.
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HITZY; You still fail to tell our loyal CGN people here the full story about the VZ 58 rifles, you don't mention that as a special favour we allowed you to come to our warehouse so you could sort through the rifles and select the ones that met your criteria, how are the results our fault ?
Now you bring up the Hirtenberg ammunition, once again talk only of what you want, the quote at the time was 100% accurate, the first container loads we pulled out of the MOD warehouses WAS older stock Berdan with a little Boxer (newer dates) mixed in.... Impossible to sort and we posted that.
When the newer dates started to appear in the warehouse we immediately began offering that in Canada and elsewhere, just like we posted. What is the issue ?
You seem to have a lot of frustrations with your hobby, perhaps you should try Yoga ?
John
 
Hitzy said:
Be firm and clear with what it would take to make you happy enough to keep the rifle....that is if you want to keep it. They don't have any of what you ordered to replace yours with...
I'd be demanding the $150 difference + the $25 hand pick (plus tax of course), if they don't come through on that....2 things you paid for and never received, then send it back.
Post the pictures so we can see how much it's off.
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Once again you know not of what you speak, you have not seen the rifle, not seen the pictures yet you offer your "expert opinion"
I do agree and have asked Mr Audet to post the pictures.
It must be terrible to be so frustrated and insecure with ones life....
John
 
B]HITZY; You still fail to tell our loyal CGN people here the full story about the VZ 58 rifles, you don't mention that as a special favour we allowed you to come to our warehouse so you could sort through the rifles and select the ones that met your criteria, how are the results our fault ?
Now you bring up the Hirtenberg ammunition, once again talk only of what you want, the quote at the time was 100% accurate, the first container loads we pulled out of the MOD warehouses WAS older stock Berdan with a little Boxer (newer dates) mixed in.... Impossible to sort and we posted that.
When the newer dates started to appear in the warehouse we immediately began offering that in Canada and elsewhere, just like we posted. What is the issue ?
You seem to have a lot of frustrations with your hobby, perhaps you should try Yoga ?
John[/B]
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You are half right, you let me go pick it up there as I was previously a loyal customer spending $3000+ in the prior year or 2 at Marstar.
I did go to pick it up there after the transfer was completed and I had the ATT to transport it home which took about a week or two back then....to save shipping costs as it was courier only for restricted firearms if you recall. I did not sort through any guns, nor did I tear it completely down in your warehouse as I didn't want to waste anyone's time and because I BELIEVED YOUR ADVERTISEMENT THAT THEY WERE NEW MANUFACTURED FIREARMS! And how would I have been able to sort through and take home a restricted firearm same day when a transfer took a week or 2? Wouldn't be legal now would it.
I got the same treatment 10+ years ago you are giving Audet...Ironclad Guarantee send it back, no apologies, no acknowledging that the ad was mismisleading, but rather an argument that NEW to you actually meant "NEWLY MADE FROM USED PARTS".
I also didn't make an issue out if what a used VZ58 actually was in Canada, because I'm not an #######. A simple apology, simply acknowledging you made a mistake would have been all it took to make me happy.
Ironclad Guarantee does not excuse you from misleading descriptions. Apologies do.
 
johnone said:
Once again you know not of what you speak, you have not seen the rifle, not seen the pictures yet you offer your "expert opinion"
I do agree and have asked Mr Audet to post the pictures.
It must be terrible to be so frustrated and insecure with ones life....
John
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Does matching color wood mean "sort of matching color wood?" Then state that in the ad...
More semantics....just like new means newly manufactured with old parts.
And im half your age and my #### still works, so my insecurities are probably no where near what yours are lol. Keep the insults coming!
 
Hitzy said:
Can anyone with one of these take some pictures of the bolt markings? I want to see if they are s/n at all or just the drawing numbers. Danes were the only ones that did that BTW.
Also the Danes were pretty resourceful and started making their own M1 barrels in the 60's. I think if they wanted a .308 M1 they would have done it themselves before these were apparently made in the '70's as the Marstar ad claims.
I'm not an M1 historian, but there are many books out there dedicated to the M1 and cover the T2. You can believe the historians, or you can believe the salesman who's ad/description is riddled with errors already.
M1 Military barrels are dated BTW....all M1 military barrels.
Not only does his story insult the Danes who could have easily made their own 7.62nato barrels, but also the Italians who put together mismatched wood rifles with rusty parts to be presented as trials rifles....
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, the Danes never adopted the Garand in 7.62 NATO. They did, however, adopt the West German G3 as their standard 7.62 NATO rifle. It's possible that the Danes may have experimented with 7.62 NATO chambered Garands, and might even have made some experimental barrels, but we have seen no evidence on this. One thing for sure they produced their own .30 Cal (.30-06) replacement barrels for their Garands. These are distinctively marked on the side of the barrel with "VAR" among other things. The ones I've owned were dated 1959, 1961 and 1966. An unworn VAR barrel can be an excellent shooter.
 
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klaus enuff said:
So I just got off the phone with johnone. I post the following with his permission: these were built for the dutch on danish marked receivers around the time frame of when the dutch were evaluating different .308 platforms ie ar10 etc, to decide what to go with. These rifles were never shipped and went into storage. They went to Germany for a complete teardown, inspection and proofing.

I don't believe Marstar would lie and cheat people by passing off faked rifles. I do agree that their dissemination of information could be better but I do understand johnone when he speaks about the frustrations of dealing with certain types of people. If you have ever worked retail or sales you will know as I do what he means. There are a lot of good knowledgable people on this forum but it can be hard to tell them apart from some of the other "experts".

I appreciate all those who have added their knowledge to this thread and hope this post helps add to the information on these rifles.
Click to expand...

What a load of BS.

Would you like to speak to the gentleman who assembled these for the Canadian market?

I can provide you with his website and email. Ask him who he assembled these for.... Want to guess who that is?
 
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