The Year of the magazine, RCMP Info sheet

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nowarningshot said:
I had a hard time with the wall of stats. Do however remember that theree was a quote by Tony Bernardo(CSSA) that there are import documents for 27 million firearms in Canada. Dont know if that accounts for any manufactured here. However, at the highest, the LGR accounted for about 9 million.......so Lieberal math...carry the 9.....divide the 27......ya 90% compliance.

Quality firearms have a lifespan of well over 100 years if protected from their only known enemies.....Rust, Lieberals, and the RCMP. This has been a hinterland who's who.
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Laugh2Laugh2 , yep that lieberal multiplivision sounds about right and I have a few over 130 years old that still sling lead!
 
Yep, originally designed is what they seem to be missing!
If they get away with this, all hell will break loose, this is the foot in the door!
 
From the CFO's this morn, "do you have any further info on the higher-than-10 10/22 capacity mags".
"Only from the RCMP website under Highlights. Anyone can look at it"
"Ok, thank you. May I clarify with you that a bulletin is not law?"
"Yes, that is correct. A bulletin is not law."

From Cabela's Windermere an hour ago. "Are you guys all caught up in the 10/22 mag thing?"
"Yes, they were here last week and advised to pull the mags or legal action would be enforced"
"How's that? The bulletin just came out this morning, and it is far from law."
"Well that's our management."
 
venture7004 said:
I have 2 of the 25 rounders at my house. I have cameras set up and I am waiting. Please kick my door in and put me in prison for the test of my life. We need a person to be publicly destroyed by this. I am volunteering. Please boot my door in. I will not comply so I must be imprisoned.
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You just have to call 911
 
"Rugers and these mags are not used in crime or by criminals"

Look guys, I've been a trial lawyer for 17 years. This is should not be the thrust of our argument.
I like the legal arguments being put forth by Edward Burlew (http://www.csaaa.org/csaaa-and-team...tion-against-1022-magazine-re-classification/). But in addition we can point to certain facts. Yes, any firearm can be lethal and used in crime. The same goes for knives and cars and bats. The point is that these firearms (Ruger 10/22s) and their magazines are all around us and have been for more than 30 yrs. Misuse, particularly violent misuse, has been incredibly rare, particularly when one considers how many of them there are.

Furthermore, you are foolish not to recognize that there are two populations who have firearms: licensed firearms owners and criminals.
The facts are utterly conclusive: the licensed firearms owners almost never commit crimes + the guns of licensed firearms owners are very rarely stolen & used in any crime. (EG/ in Vancouver the VPD stats indicate that about 99% of guns used in crime are stolen handguns from the USA) We are a tremendously responsible and law-abiding group of citizens. Therefore, if safety and crime reduction are the focus of policing then the RCMP are clearly targeting the wrong population.

Also, if one thinks that these draconian measures will rid the nation of "high cap" magazines then consider these facts:
1) the horse has already bolted from the barn; there are arguably hundreds of thousands of 25-round rimfire mags already in circulation and they have been for about 30 years;
2) they have no expiry date; and
3) pins can be removed in minutes (and no one will ever convince me that criminals have not figured that out).

If one thinks these draconian measures will increase safety and reduce crime then consider these facts:
1) the quantity of these firearms and, by reasonable inference, their magazines, have increased significantly in Canada, particularly over the last 10+ years (source: RCMP stats), and
2) in fact, this can be said for box-magazine fed guns and their magazines generally (EG/ semi-auto Armalite rifle variants and their magazines, including LAR-15 and Beowulf mags)

And yet, in the face of more guns, more magazines, more licensed gun owners, the amnesty + the scrapping of the Long Gun Registry, and nothing but little pins standing in the way of loading 20 or 25 or 30 or even 100 rounds of ammunition --> crime, violent crime and gun crime have been steadily dropping over the last 10 years.
Would anyone argue that correlation = causation in this regard?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/index-eng.htm

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2014001/article/11925-eng.htm
 
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Excellent post! Your insight into the workings of federal government is both enlightening and, I must say, a bit frightening. Thank you for laying out a strategy that we can all follow as individuals. Respectfully written letters, not emails, will be going out from my household in short order to the Public Safety Minister, the PM and my local MP, who is a Conservative. I have communicated with her in the past and I know she understands the issues concerning firearms owners in Canada.

I am also hopeful that our different firearms organizations can come together to fight this. We need to have a united front. What I see from them so far with the class action, etc. is encouraging. I already support the CCFR and the NFA and will probably join the CSSA now too.

Ultimately, I think this must be dealt with in a court of law. Either a class action or someone fighting (successfully) a charge of possession of a prohibited magazine.


hsnerd said:
Thank you sir, I wrote those words in a slow-burn of passion, and re-worked them until I felt it spoke using calm and reasoned language.

In a past life I wore green and after that spent a miserable 4 years in the federal government as a permanent employee. I resigned. Learned way too much that I can't speak of under law.

I have since worked for them in various capacities as a contractor for much too long, and know them intimately from the inside, by working with their own employees. I am pleased to say I no longer work for them in any direct capacity, as I now work for a private company that manufactures and sells things, a much more honest activity I can feel good about.

Sun Tzu said in the Art of War: Know your enemy.

Our enemy, clearly the government and its appendages in this situation, wishes to paint us as nuts who cannot be trusted to manage our own property and lives and need to be especially policed vis-à-vis the gang-bangers criminal thugs who do not hold a PAL much less an RPAL, but cannot so easily be counted and inventoried as us licensed law-abiding folk who go through all the hoops and checks/balances.

This serves as a 'quick win' for them, even though it's a meaningless gesture in combating crime, an expression I have heard way too often in the meeting rooms of the federal government. They know the public has a short memory and loves sensation. When something sensational comes up people will forget about detailed stuff, and move onto the shiny thing.

The timing of this move is very strategic, at the beginning of the parliamentary recess. People will quickly forget about this if it hits the news unless we make lots of noise. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease, government does not want unhappy people spreading that unhappiness to others. Communications staff have the highest turnaround and stress in government, in my experience. That's because they have to do all the lying. If we keep the pressure on them, they will eventually concede and act.

I wanted my words to hold truth as self-evident, so that if for some reason by crafting and sending them I had a knock at my door and ended up in cuffs, I could stand proudly behind that letter in any court of law before a jury of my peers, my family, and my children.

I hope I've inspired others to do the same and in great numbers! Many others in this great forum have also impressed me with their written responses and inquiries to our officials. Let's keep it up!

The emperor has no clothes! : )

For others writing in: Please be respectful, we need to come across as the reasoned logical folks that we can be, since this government trumpets itself as making evidence-based decisions.

After waiting the time allotted and not receiving a response, you should follow that up with further contact by telephone to their offices and ask why they still have not responded to your official correspondence. If you have a few bucks, try sending the letters by registered mail, requiring signature.

Strength in numbers!

PS: Emails mean nothing to them, they get so many they have to build massive systems to archive all that stuff as per law dictates but they don't have time to sift through it all. Snail mail and live telephone calls will get their attention more. Calling them out on social media might start something that goes viral and grows faster than they can lie about, as their communications processes are very slow and require much top-down approval. A federal government tweet is a 12-step approval process!
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bcbravo2zero said:
"Rugers and these mags are not used in crime or by criminals"

Look guys, I've been a trial lawyer for 17 years. This is should not be the thrust of our argument.
I like the legal arguments being put forth by Edward Burlew (http://www.csaaa.org/csaaa-and-team...tion-against-1022-magazine-re-classification/). But in addition we can point to certain facts. Yes, any firearm can be lethal and used in crime. The same goes for knives and cars and bats. The point is that these firearms (Ruger 10/22s) and their magazines are all around us and have been for more than 30 yrs. Misuse, particularly violent misuse, has been incredibly rare, particularly when one considers how many of them there are.

Furthermore, you are foolish not to recognize that there are two populations who have firearms: licensed firearms owners and criminals.
The facts are utterly conclusive: the licensed firearms owners almost never commit crimes + the guns of licensed firearms owners are very rarely stolen & used in any crime. (EG/ in Vancouver the VPD stats indicate that about 99% of guns used in crime are stolen handguns from the USA) We are a tremendously responsible and law-abiding group of citizens. Therefore, if safety and crime reduction are the focus of policing then the RCMP are clearly targeting the wrong population.

Also, if one thinks that these draconian measures will rid the nation of "high cap" magazines then consider these facts:
1) the horse has already bolted from the barn; there are arguably hundreds of thousands of 25-round rimfire mags already in circulation and they have been for about 30 years;
2) they have no expiry date; and
3) pins can be removed in minutes (and no one will ever convince me that criminals have not figured that out).

If one thinks these draconian measures will increase safety and reduce crime then consider these facts:
1) the quantity of these firearms and, by reasonable inference, their magazines, have increased significantly in Canada, particularly over the last 10+ years (source: RCMP stats), and
2) in fact, this can be said for box-magazine fed guns and their magazines generally (EG/ semi-auto Armalite rifle variants and their magazines, including LAR-15 and Beowulf mags)

And yet, in the face of more guns, more magazines, more licensed gun owners, the amnesty + the scrapping of the Long Gun Registry, and nothing but little pins standing in the way of loading 20 or 25 or 30 or even 100 rounds of ammunition --> crime, violent crime and gun crime have been steadily dropping over the last 10 years.
Would anyone argue that correlation = causation in this regard?

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/index-eng.htm

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/2014001/article/11925-eng.htm
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That all looks good to me.

There are 1.25 million over-ten-round magazines for 10/22 imported into Canada over the past 30 years, according to the distributor.
(see Rebel Brian Lilley Tony Bernardo)
 
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Wow .....

I guess if we get Ruger to recall all those pistols they made that take the 10-22's mags and stop shipping any new production into Canada then the mags would be legal again ...

I hope Remington does not start making a pistol that takes the 597 high cap mags , then I'll be SOL ....

Lets hope this gets sorted out for the best of all my fellow ( legal ) gun owners and they incur No financial loss and are properly compensated ( $$ ) for the change in the legality of they property bought in good faith from legal gun stores .
 
Stop blaming the lab rats, redirect your anger to the RCMP Lab Bosses that are sucking up to the Lieberals unless you are seriously ignorant enough to believe the rank and file has any say.

Don't blame the charger owners, or the beat cops that has to enforce stupid laws. Blame the Lieberals and all the RCMP bosses sucking up to them.
Deckard said:
No...the lab rats can stop making up #### and they can suck our asses.
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Yeah, this is a crock of bull####. The RCMP brass need to pull their heads out of their asses and stop persecuting legal gun owners with this kind of unlawful garbage. They have no business making up laws and regs as they go along. How interested do you think the average officer on the street chasing gang bangers, rapists and drug dealers is in going around confiscating .22 mags from law abiding gun owners? Speaking as a law enforcement officer myself (although not an RCMP member), my guess would be NOT AT ALL.

Considering this opinion of the RCMP has no basis in law, I think it's probably time for the firearms community, organizations, owners and businesses, to collectively tell the RCMP to f*** off, as well as the liberal idiots in Ottawa who are no doubt pushing this agenda from behind closed doors.
 
This kind of politics is very dangerous. Remember folks the public discussions in many nation wide gun clubs regarding the on coming LGR?

Guess exactly what police organization (and the only one too) that had it's members also present & out of uniform?

I know for a fact from an auxiliary member that in Moose Jaw, they were certainly there.
 
Frankly, the bigger issue here, I think, is that the RCMP's conduct represents basically an attack on one of the foundational principles of the rule of law, namely that the police do not make laws or policies of government. Canadians as a whole, whether they are gun owners or not, should be deeply concerned at the way the RCMP is being permitted to play fast and loose with the law, basically making #### up as they go along. As an organization, they badly need to be reigned in and put in their proper place; we do NOT want to live in a country where the police make the law up off the top of their heads whenever the whim hits them, which is exactly what they've been doing lately in regards to firearms and magazines.

Please note, also, that this is not in any way directed at frontline officers, who are almost without exception highly dedicated, trust worthy professionals whose desire is to protect and serve the public. They mostly see the stupidity of this kind of thing, some even voicing opposition to it within their organization, but their common sense falls on deaf ears in Ottawa. The RCMP's conduct ought to make all Canadians angry, but I would urge everyone to direct your ire toward the leaders in Ottawa, not the hard working joe Constable on the street who just wants to catch bad guys and put them in jail where they belong.

Also, just in case it wasn't obvious enough, I'm not advocating that anyone break the law. The opinion of the RCMP is not the law, especially when it is blatantly contradicted by the law and regulations, as is the case here. God help us if this country ever gets to the state where the opinion of the police becomes the defacto law.
 
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I visited my MP's office yesterday to ask what other legally owned property was going to be randomly criminalized. The lady knew what I was talking about and asked if I learned about the mag issue on The Rebel. I said yes and she said I was the third complaint of the day who had learned of the issue from Brian Lilley.
 
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