50 beowulf AR..opinions on this caliber

HOSSONE

HOSSONE

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I have been looking at AR's for a few months now. The only reason I want one is because....well, I just want one and it is something I have always wanted. The reason I have not jumped on one yet is I don't really see myself using it much as my local range is only 25 yards indoors and I would rather spend my time there shooting handguns. I am also not a big fan of the .223. Recently something sparked in my memory and lead me to remember the .50 Beowulf. I did some google research and this caliber is really intriguing me. I do reload so I am not worried about that and like I said I don't see myself using it a lot so I am not worried about the ammo cost. I think it would be a really cool toy! Looking for input from anyone on here with first hand experience. What are your thoughts on this caliber?

:confused:
 
IMHO an AR is a complete waste if you're limited to 25 yards whether it's 5.56mm, 6.8, .300BLK, 7.62x39, 7.62x51 (AR10), or a .50 Beowulf.

The Beowulf is a solid choice as a hog-stopper, but we're not allowed to hunt with our ARs.
 
HOSSONE said:
I have been looking at AR's for a few months now. The only reason I want one is because....well, I just want one and it is something I have always wanted. The reason I have not jumped on one yet is I don't really see myself using it much as my local range is only 25 yards indoors and I would rather spend my time there shooting handguns. I am also not a big fan of the .223. Recently something sparked in my memory and lead me to remember the .50 Beowulf. I did some google research and this caliber is really intriguing me. I do reload so I am not worried about that and like I said I don't see myself using it a lot so I am not worried about the ammo cost. I think it would be a really cool toy! Looking for input from anyone on here with first hand experience. What are your thoughts on this caliber?

:confused:
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If it is your first foray into the AR world I would suggest a 556/223. The .50 Beowulf is a niche caliber that is expensive to reload and near impossible to purchase factory ammo. Yes you are in a 25 yard buy you may explore other future options to enjoy this fine rifle. The resale value of a standard AR caliber is also much better.
 
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Why not? It will be tons of fun. Other than the logistic issue of getting the ammo, the big "thump" makes me grim. If you get the chance to shoot at steel plates, a heavy 50 cal bullet will make the gong fly :)

This is from a guy who has spent all his life shooting 556. Sometime, you just need to have some toys.

I have a 12.5" 308, just because!
 
greentips said:
Why not? It will be tons of fun. Other than the logistic issue of getting the ammo, the big "thump" makes me grim. If you get the chance to shoot at steel plates, a heavy 50 cal bullet will make the gong fly :)

This is from a guy who has spent all his life shooting 556. Sometime, you just need to have some toys.

I have a 12.5" 308, just because!
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That's what i'm thinking, I dont care how sad i am or whats going on.....When i shoot my 45-70 it just makes you smile. Not to worried about ammo. I can roll my own.

Have you ever shot one ?
 
So .50 cal. at an indoor 25yd. range is that what's being discussed here? If so you may just want to check range reg.'s because many stop at .338Lapua or there abouts for the maximum allowable calibre.

I agree though as I'd have to say any .50 would be a riot to shoot and you can get the .50 in a NR type AR style lower IIRC so that would eliminate range rules by heading to crown land.

Cheers D
 
Zeroed-In said:
So .50 cal. at an indoor 25yd. range is that what's being discussed here? If so you may just want to check range reg.'s because many stop at .338Lapua or there abouts for the maximum allowable calibre.

I agree though as I'd have to say any .50 would be a riot to shoot and you can get the .50 in a NR type AR style lower IIRC so that would eliminate range rules by heading to crown land.

Cheers D
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He's talking .50 Beowulf not .50 BMG. 2 very different rounds.
 
I wanted a big bore AR and did a lot of research and decided to go with the .458 Socom, since you reload there is not problem since you can't buy factory loaded ammunition in Canada. The .458 gives you a wider selection of bullets, will fit in factory AR mags without alteration, you can go from 140gr bullet to a 600gr bullet. All .458 bullets are designed for rifles, while with the beowulf most bullets are pistol. Hope that helps. I have ordered the CMMG Anvil in .458 Socom, can't wait for it to arrive
 
Curtis264 said:
I wanted a big bore AR and did a lot of research and decided to go with the .458 Socom, since you reload there is not problem since you can't buy factory loaded ammunition in Canada. The .458 gives you a wider selection of bullets, will fit in factory AR mags without alteration, you can go from 140gr bullet to a 600gr bullet. All .458 bullets are designed for rifles, while with the beowulf most bullets are pistol. Hope that helps. I have ordered the CMMG Anvil in .458 Socom, can't wait for it to arrive
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Thanks Curtis264, I have been looking at the 458 socom as well. This would be an advantage to me since I could share bullets with my 45-70. I will have to check out the CMMG. Have you ever shot a Socom before?
 
HOSSONE said:
Thanks Curtis264, I have been looking at the 458 socom as well. This would be an advantage to me since I could share bullets with my 45-70. I will have to check out the CMMG. Have you ever shot a Socom before?
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No, but i was talking to a guy in the US that has one and he says it is fantastic, he has a few AR's and he says the Socom is his favorite, btw he also has a beowulf. There is a lot of info especially on youtube about the CMMG Anvil, FRT has been issued for it so it is good to go. BTW the Socom is supposed to be 10% more effective that the 45-70
 
last i heard beowulf was the same, we can also use pistol mags to increase that. i pulled this letter off another site. pm me if you want the link

The 50 Beowulf Magazine
In the case of AR platform rifles chambered for 50 Beowulf calibre, the magazine is adapted from the original 5.56x45 NATO version of the magazine, generally by one or more of the following: widening the space between the magazine lips, changing the angle of the magazine lips and changing the feed angle of the magazine follower. The adaptations more efficiently feed the much larger diameter 50 Beowulf calibre cartridge. However, the original ability to contain and feed 5.56x45 mm NATO cartridges has not been deleted and the magazines remain serviceable for that purpose.
The 50 Beowulf cartridge is centrefire and the AR platform rifles which use that calibre are semiautomatic. Thus, cartridge magazines for 50 Beowulf calibre firearms are prohibited if more than five 50 Beowulf cartridges can be contained in the magazine (subparagraph ii, as above).
Magazines for the AR platform which contain four or five 50 Beowulf calibre cartridges present a more complicated situation. Such magazines will generally contain 11 and 14 cartridges respectively of 5.56x45 mm NATO (or 223 Remington) calibre. Since the 50 Beowulf calibre magazines are adapted from the original 5.56x45 mm NATO design and the ability of the magazine to perform as originally designed has not been compromised by the adaptation, such magazines are prohibited if they contain more than five 5.56x45 mm NATO cartridges. The magazines are in effect dual calibre magazines and will be prohibited if they exceed five shots capacity of either calibre.
Magazines have recently been manufactured in, or imported into Canada bearing markings suggesting they are exclusively designed for 50 Beowulf ammunition, and at four or five shot capacity, are non-prohibited magazines. This is simply not the case. All magazines for 50 Beowulf calibre AR platform firearms presently on the Canadian market are prohibited devices.
AR Platform Upper Receivers
You had also asked about 50 Beowulf calibre AR upper receivers. Your understanding is correct that they are not prohibited.

Yours Sincerely,
Manager,
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Support Services Directorate
Canadian Firearms Program
Specialized Policing Services
 
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Curtis264 said:
last i heard beowulf was the same, we can also use pistol mags to increase that. i pulled this letter off another site. pm me if you want the link

The 50 Beowulf Magazine
In the case of AR platform rifles chambered for 50 Beowulf calibre, the magazine is adapted from the original 5.56x45 NATO version of the magazine, generally by one or more of the following: widening the space between the magazine lips, changing the angle of the magazine lips and changing the feed angle of the magazine follower. The adaptations more efficiently feed the much larger diameter 50 Beowulf calibre cartridge. However, the original ability to contain and feed 5.56x45 mm NATO cartridges has not been deleted and the magazines remain serviceable for that purpose.
The 50 Beowulf cartridge is centrefire and the AR platform rifles which use that calibre are semiautomatic. Thus, cartridge magazines for 50 Beowulf calibre firearms are prohibited if more than five 50 Beowulf cartridges can be contained in the magazine (subparagraph ii, as above).
Magazines for the AR platform which contain four or five 50 Beowulf calibre cartridges present a more complicated situation. Such magazines will generally contain 11 and 14 cartridges respectively of 5.56x45 mm NATO (or 223 Remington) calibre. Since the 50 Beowulf calibre magazines are adapted from the original 5.56x45 mm NATO design and the ability of the magazine to perform as originally designed has not been compromised by the adaptation, such magazines are prohibited if they contain more than five 5.56x45 mm NATO cartridges. The magazines are in effect dual calibre magazines and will be prohibited if they exceed five shots capacity of either calibre.
Magazines have recently been manufactured in, or imported into Canada bearing markings suggesting they are exclusively designed for 50 Beowulf ammunition, and at four or five shot capacity, are non-prohibited magazines. This is simply not the case. All magazines for 50 Beowulf calibre AR platform firearms presently on the Canadian market are prohibited devices.
AR Platform Upper Receivers
You had also asked about 50 Beowulf calibre AR upper receivers. Your understanding is correct that they are not prohibited.

Yours Sincerely,
Manager,
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative and Enforcement Support Services Directorate
Canadian Firearms Program
Specialized Policing Services
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yes, same problem and why I have not invested more into these two calibers as enforcement is inevitable, just like the notices on the 10/22 mags from the RCMP. Once they have the liberals rubber stamp their opinion as law its game over. The RCMP opinion is also on the FRT table for the entries of the Beowulf rifles. 458 uses modified 223/556 mags however Alexander arms is the pattent holder for the 50beo and he designed his mags to work with the intended round and has failures feeding 223/556 because of the tilting follower. Other savy canadian dealers and importers saw this and decided to get 50 beowulf mags made by other manufacturers with anti tilt followers that fail to feed the rounds they were intended for well, but feed 223/556 flawlessly. This really muddied the waters quickly and brought the issue to a head with the RCMP lab

450 Bushmaster and 30 Remington AR use proprietary stanag pattern mags, safer bet for now is how I look at it
 
Brian46 said:
yes, same problem and why I have not invested more into these two calibers as enforcement is inevitable, just like the notices on the 10/22 mags from the RCMP. Once they have the liberals rubber stamp their opinion as law its game over. The RCMP opinion is also on the FRT table for the entries of the Beowulf rifles. 458 uses modified 223/556 mags however Alexander arms is the pattent holder for the 50beo and he designed his mags to work with the intended round and has failures feeding 223/556 because of the tilting follower. Other savy canadian dealers and importers saw this and decided to get 50 beowulf mags made by other manufacturers with anti tilt followers that fail to feed the rounds they were intended for well, but feed 223/556 flawlessly. This really muddied the waters quickly and brought the issue to a head with the RCMP lab

450 Bushmaster and 30 Remington AR use proprietary stanag pattern mags, safer bet for now is how I look at it
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Since the .458 socom can use unmodified mags then the 10 shot pistol mags will hold 4 in the mag. Of all the big bore AR cartridges the .450 bushmaster is one of the least efficient cartridges made for these rifles
 
Curtis264 said:
Since the .458 socom can use unmodified mags then the 10 shot pistol mags will hold 4 in the mag. Of all the big bore AR cartridges the .450 bushmaster is one of the least efficient cartridges made for these rifles
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the 450 and Remington 30AR are the only ones with factory ammo availability in Canada. we can compare efficiency when the other calibers get factory loadings available in Canada to do so.

Any article I have read on the 458 has people talking about modifying factory 556 mags to run it stateside, does it run in unaltered 556 mags reliably?

I use my 450 for hunting in a NR platform, the calibers with the magazine issues are getting less appealing as you will inevitably go through a game check where the RCMP will look at everything

There is also this http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1237510-50-Bw-mags-things-are-getting-stupid?p=11386913&viewfull=1#post11386913

Armtac said:
Being the dealer with Alexander Arms, we were originally going to manufacturer the polymer version of the .50 Beowulf mags in Korea completely with a new mold 2 years ago. We have one currently sitting with RCMP for inspection, however, numerous email with RCMP did mentioned that they will not likely going to approve any .50 Beowulf magazine.

Here is a portion of the communication I have with RCMP

"Across the spectrum of numerous inspections, RCMP-SFSS has not seen a single 50 Beowulf magazine or a single 458 Socom Calibre magazine for the AR-15 platform that is not prohibited. This is because the magazine designs we have seen have been adapted from the AR-15/M16 5.56 x 45 mm design to accommodate the 458 Socom & 50 Beowulf calibre cartridge but have never lost the 5.56 mm design features.

I am not here to argue, I am here to tell people what SFSS told me.

It really doesn't make any sense to me either, but a lot of stuffs in life doesn't make any sense as well.
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Brian46 said:
the 450 and Remington 30AR are the only ones with factory ammo availability in Canada. we can compare efficiency when the other calibers get factory loadings available in Canada to do so.

Any article I have read on the 458 has people talking about modifying factory 556 mags to run it stateside, does it run in unaltered 556 mags reliably?

I use my 450 for hunting in a NR platform, the calibers with the magazine issues are getting less appealing as you will inevitably go through a game check where the RCMP will look at everything

There is also this http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1237510-50-Bw-mags-things-are-getting-stupid?p=11386913&viewfull=1#post11386913
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The history of the .458 socom was developed to meet the US military specs that the round had to function in a standard AR mag, which it does. Any AR styled rifle out hunting is going to get checked by RCMP. Nice thing is this round was designed for a one shot kill. SBR has made application to NrCan to sell their ammunition in Canada so it will not be to long before you can get commercial ammunition here, also in the USA there are a lot of manufactures making ammunition for the Socom because of the popularity of this round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkWPerR6kE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0u_Pq-7Q-g

Here is a video on the CMMG Anvil using Pmags shooting 458
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oYoBRYq2Rs

Going back to original post, op states that he reloads, so ammunition is really not a challenge, he has a 45-70 so he already has projectiles for it. I have never had or needed a hunting rifle with more than 5 shots, so mag capacity out hunting is not an issue, and remember most of these AR are range rifles so hunting is not an issue
 
Curtis264 said:
The history of the .458 socom was developed to meet the US military specs that the round had to function in a standard AR mag, which it does. Any AR styled rifle out hunting is going to get checked by RCMP. Nice thing is this round was designed for a one shot kill. SBR has made application to NrCan to sell their ammunition in Canada so it will not be to long before you can get commercial ammunition here, also in the USA there are a lot of manufactures making ammunition for the Socom because of the popularity of this round.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVkWPerR6kE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0u_Pq-7Q-g

Here is a video on the CMMG Anvil using Pmags shooting 458
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oYoBRYq2Rs

Going back to original post, op states that he reloads, so ammunition is really not a challenge, he has a 45-70 so he already has projectiles for it. I have never had or needed a hunting rifle with more than 5 shots, so mag capacity out hunting is not an issue, and remember most of these AR are range rifles so hunting is not an issue
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It is the mags themselves and RCMP opinion that will become enforceable soon enough. It doesn't matter what you or I think is legal. The liberals gave sole authority to the RCMP to decide all gun legalities in canada. Their opinion is all the modified mags they have seen for the 458 and 50 are prohibited.

I have never been hassled about the 450, I can not say the same for the 50 and won't be buying into the 458 either unless something changes

The Anvil may be a great gun but no point if it gets a restricted status. Big bore semi autos were made for hunting, not paper.
 
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Brian46 said:
It is the mags themselves and RCMP opinion that will become enforceable soon enough. It doesn't matter what you or I think is legal. The liberals gave sole authority to the RCMP to decide all gun legalities in canada. Their opinion is all the modified mags they have seen for the 458 and 50 are prohibited.

I have never been hassled about the 450, I can not say the same for the 50 and won't be buying into the 458 either unless something changes

The Anvil may be a great gun but no point if it gets a restricted status. Big bore semi autos were made for hunting, not paper.
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So.....you've been approached/hassled by the "authorities" about having or using 50 Beowulf magazines?
 
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