Original finish on a Finnish M39

D-BOMB

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Hey all, with all the recent buzz on Finn M39's going around it has me playing around with mine more. I got it a few years ago and I have always questioned its stock finish since day 1. It doesn't look bad, it just doesn't look Finnish. I understand that the Finns used multiple finishes through the service life of the M39 but I am not sure this is one of them. I purchased some of the gunstock doctors 1/3 mix also known as the original "Finn mix" but before I attempt a refinish job, I would like some opinions.

First of all the rifle is a 1944 Sako, and it bears no markings at all on the stock and has the post war style square jointed stock.

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It seems to be a little glossy for a military finish, these photos were taken with no flash.

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Here is where I really start to get suspect of it, When looking at the inside of the hand guards you can see where the finish stops and was only applied to the external of the stock. Also there is an old gouge in the wood where it appears the finish has settled into, as if the finish was applied after the fact.

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Like I said I figured I would consult some outside opinion before I do anything to it.

Thanks in advance!
 
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There are documents that state that at one point Finnish Mosin stocks were stained and then oiled. Later, during refurbishment there was a process of oiling with "rifle stock oil" and lacquering boiled flax seed oil and buffing to a shine. It is also well documented that at one point the m28-30 was finished with a Hour POMO-Lacquer. Many of the stocks are also completely unfinished. Sanding is also documented to be done during refurbishment with lacquering.

Basically, there were tons of finishes, stains, lacquers and processes used in the 70 or so years Finland was using Mosins and it's damn near impossible to actually replicate the correct one for any given rifle for a restoration. The varnish could be completely original and I would just leave it as is.
 
I would say visible wotking inside hand guards are common on Finish mosins. Finns went extra mile to "float" the barrel. That explains why you can still see some finish material (stain or other) in a gouge. Stocks were finished and then fitted for a floating barrel.
 
FWIW, the wartime finish was pine tar mixed with flax oil, which is just a type of linseed oil. It gives a mottled finish with dark patches that a lot of people look for on a Finn rifle. Post-war rifles would generally not have that nice wartime look.
 
I'm going to resurrect this as to not start a new thread. I have received my VKT M39 from tradex and am very happy with it so I am thinking of selling or trading this one. I am trying to gauge a fair value in the current market. It is a 44' Sako, Bolt matches, NO import marks, bore is shiny but does have some wear and frost in the grooves, post war stock that may(?) have been refinished but can't get a definite answer.

DSC_0118 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
DSC_0119 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
DSC_0120 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
DSC_0121 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
DSC_0122 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
DSC_0123 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
DSC_0124 by D-BOMB50, on Flickr
 
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My gut feel is its been refinished here in Canada. I'd suggest around $700. Others may differ. Probably lots of guys on a hint for a sako now.
 
Finn rifles are extremely difficult to pin down to any standard in so many ways. I have a couple of M91s that were Finn captured or left behind when the Russians were thrown out. The one I like the most was rebarreled in 1942 with a Tikka marked barrel and the original stock looks to have been replaced with a round finger jointed Birch unit. The finish is the standard wartime pine tar/flax oil but it is very dark overall with slightly lighter patches and matte in appearance. It has black iron sling hangers and a black butt plate. The rifle looks to have never been issued after the rebuild. Maybe, I can one day bring myself to actually shoot it.

The other is a NE Westinghouse M91 that has somehow managed to keep its original barrel and bolt. The bore is worn to around 75% of original but isn't pitted and measures out at the muzzle to .3085. It still shoots better than I can hold. That's likely why the ever frugal Finns left it alone. The stock has been replaced with dark Birch on the receiver piece and a light colored fore end and also has the rounded finger joints. The finish on this stock is completely different. It looks to have been oil/beeswax or something similar. I have had the rifle for a long time. I have shot, by my notes 300 rounds of non corrosive 150 grain hand loads on Norma brass through it at a moderate 2500fps. No reason for hotter loads as it's one of the paper punchers.

I have a nice little M38 Soviet issue with a red laminated stock that I used to shoot a Deer with Norma 174gr soft points from a box of Norma factory loads. It isn't a pleasant rifle to shoot at all but it is certainly a looker.

In 1967 when Lever Arms and Harkly and Haywood first brought in some Finn rifles I can tell you honestly they were in pretty rough shape, as were the Soviet offerings. These rifles weren't the best they had to offer the markets or maybe the really nice stuff had been picked up in Western Europe or the US and we got the left overs??? They came out of International Firearms warehouse in Montreal or they had cards stapled to them that stated they had once been the property of IF. They didn't come in crates like the rifles we have seen over the last decade or so either. They were on pallets with heavy cardboard between the rows and at least had cardboard protection under the steel banding, unlike the Lee Enfields and Mausers which had no protection at all and were just stacked against each other.

I digress. Sorry. I've wandered of topic as well. Again, I apologize.

I have owned and shot several M39/M28/M91 Finn rifles over the years. Had one M96 Swede with SA markings and even a K98 with SA markings. Not sure if the K98 was real or not. It was beat to hell and shot poorly in comparison to the other rifles. I always liked the M91s and kept the best two I had. The rest were easy to sell and easier to make a profit on. A month ago I bought an M39 from an estate and only saw a few pics from the executor. I certainly didn't pay the current prices being asked. I never even got to open the box to look at the rifle and sold it to a collector that prefers to remain incognito. He paid the going rate plus, based on the pics I sent him because the rifle has no import marks and an unstamped/serialed receiver. Fine says I and took the cash to purchase one of Weimajack's rifles.

I see that P&S as mentioned still has several VKTs left under $1000.

In Penticton this spring I picked up an M39 for $150. It was a beater, looking like one that came into Lever's in 1967. I sold it about 20 minutes later for $300. Someone had drilled a hole into the butt plate, there was no finish left on it and the bore was only about 40%. There was also a M91 in similar condition with a post war stock for similar prices. Both didn't make it a half hour into the show. It also had a hole drilled into the butt plate. I have no idea why those holes were drilled. Maybe they were used in a display and a retaining pin was inserted??

I seem to come across a couple of Finn rifles every year but few of them are in what I would consider good enough condition to hold onto. Looks like I have been missing the boat???
 
Just pulled my M39 out of the safe. It hasn't seen the light of day for 10 yrs plus.
Purchased through a LGS from International (Century) Firearms in Montreal in mid 80's- Cost was 85 bucks!!
It is a 1943 Sako barrel SKY marked with Hex receiver.
It has 4 different serial #'s- 6 digit on top of barrel- 6 digit on right side of barrel- 4 digit on bolt handle and 4 digit on bottom of magazine - all stamped
Splice has flat joint on sides and rounded finger grooves on bottom.
Stock finish is pine tar (I think)
Bore is very good- excellant
Since I haven't shot it in a long time I've put together some cast loads with 311299 and plan on doing some additional load work up

Any feedback on what I have would be appreciated.
 
FWIW, the wartime finish was pine tar mixed with flax oil, which is just a type of linseed oil. It gives a mottled finish with dark patches that a lot of people look for on a Finn rifle. Post-war rifles would generally not have that nice wartime look.

I read this original post of mine and cringed. I was wrong, the finish is actually Kiväärintukkiöljy, a Finnish product known as "rifle stock oil".

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It may contain some pine tar, but the manufacturer is not telling anyone exactly what it's composed of. Still made today, but thought to source.
 
Just pulled my M39 out of the safe. It hasn't seen the light of day for 10 yrs plus.
Purchased through a LGS from International (Century) Firearms in Montreal in mid 80's- Cost was 85 bucks!!
It is a 1943 Sako barrel SKY marked with Hex receiver.
It has 4 different serial #'s- 6 digit on top of barrel- 6 digit on right side of barrel- 4 digit on bolt handle and 4 digit on bottom of magazine - all stamped
Splice has flat joint on sides and rounded finger grooves on bottom.
Stock finish is pine tar (I think)
Bore is very good- excellant
Since I haven't shot it in a long time I've put together some cast loads with 311299 and plan on doing some additional load work up

Any feedback on what I have would be appreciated.

Pictures would help. Much will depend on what stock it is wearing. If there is a shield cartouche on the side of the butt with an "S" inside it with what looks like pine tree leaves growing out of it and the number "43" under the shield, then it's a desirable rifle.
 
Had another look. There is "stamp" on right side of butt stock. It is a small circle with an L in middle. Also what appears to be crossed hammers running from 1 o'clock to 7 and 11 to 5. Hammerheads (if that is what they are) at the 5 and 7 o'clock positions.
 
You can tell by the markings that the stock was sanded with an electric sander (swivel marks - and likely a mouse sander). Then the stock was re-finished. I would leave as is, or sand properly with sand paper manually and then re-finish. If it is wrong, at least make the wrong look right. Finn's simply didn't use mouse sanders….
 
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