- Location
- Jameson, SK
You're right.
I'm not advocating for breaking the law, I just think some of the are really, really dumb.
Stolen Pistol
- Thread starter Kiwiman1
- Start date
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You're right.
I'm not advocating for breaking the law, I just think some of the are really, really dumb.
Nobody is. That's a less-than-smart debating tactic. Especially when it's not true and they'll trying to paint a rosey picture of our community. They need not invent boogeymen...but they do. You don't have to respond to their straw man either.
- Location
- Jameson, SK
Sorry, was busy on the football field when debate club tryouts were on in 1991......
To the lynch mob crowd, imagine the following scenario:
You are at an outdoor range. It's a typical range, like dozens in not hundreds of other ranges in Canada. It's in a rural area. It's supposed to be for members only, but there is no barbed wire, armed guards or minefields to keep trespassers away. Heck, there probably isn't even a fence surrounding the range property. Anyone can get in. You are sitting at a bench, shooting at targets a couple of hundred yards away. You've got a couple of boxes of ammo on the bench next to you. It is now time to change targets. Everyone puts down their guns, the range is declared safe and you trot downrange to change your targets. When you come back, your rifle and ammo are not there.
A somewhat unlikely but not impossible scenario. No doubt this has happened before. Question is, if this happens to you, should you be charged with criminal negligence? If your answer is no, then why the hell not? You have left your firearm unattended. It is reasonably foreseeable that a thief could get onto the range and snatch guns while shooters are away changing targets. You might protest and say that your range rules prevent you from taking guns and ammo with you downrange. That's fine, but range rules do not override the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code.
To make things even worse, the gun that "disappeared" was an evil, baby-killing, rapid fire, semi-automatic, military-style, restricted rifle. You call the cops and say that your AR-15 went missing. In today's political climate, what do you think is the likelihood of you not getting charged?
You are at an outdoor range. It's a typical range, like dozens in not hundreds of other ranges in Canada. It's in a rural area. It's supposed to be for members only, but there is no barbed wire, armed guards or minefields to keep trespassers away. Heck, there probably isn't even a fence surrounding the range property. Anyone can get in. You are sitting at a bench, shooting at targets a couple of hundred yards away. You've got a couple of boxes of ammo on the bench next to you. It is now time to change targets. Everyone puts down their guns, the range is declared safe and you trot downrange to change your targets. When you come back, your rifle and ammo are not there.
A somewhat unlikely but not impossible scenario. No doubt this has happened before. Question is, if this happens to you, should you be charged with criminal negligence? If your answer is no, then why the hell not? You have left your firearm unattended. It is reasonably foreseeable that a thief could get onto the range and snatch guns while shooters are away changing targets. You might protest and say that your range rules prevent you from taking guns and ammo with you downrange. That's fine, but range rules do not override the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code.
To make things even worse, the gun that "disappeared" was an evil, baby-killing, rapid fire, semi-automatic, military-style, restricted rifle. You call the cops and say that your AR-15 went missing. In today's political climate, what do you think is the likelihood of you not getting charged?
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grimreefer
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
Okay, you want the focus to be on the thief. So start that conversation. I don't see how that could be productive in the slightest (an echo chamber for condemnation purposes, if you will...), but I invite you, again, to prove me wrong.
Instead, we could be productive, and use this as a reminder that we need to do everything we reasonably can to keep our legally owned guns out of the hands of criminals. Otherwise the statistics will be used against us.
Fine. It's just that everyone tripping over each other to be more condemning than the last is both nauseating and has no net effect on a system that is designed to be 10,000 snares promoting confiscation. We can do everything we can do to keep firearms away thieves and still be 'at fault'. An example is 'safe storage'. The purpose is NOT to prevent theft, but increasingly it's been 'interpreted' as such. The system does what it's designed to do irrespective of any of our feelings on the subject, and often in spite or our best efforts. That's not a system to celebrate.
The RCMP site provides a general time line but only goes back to the late 1890's. Also doesn't explain "the how & whys."
Yes, that is the book. In the book, gun control history starts before Canadian confederation and ends the Chrétien's Liberals and the passing of Bill C-68, the Firearm Act of 1995. I liked the book and thought it was quite neutral in its presentation.
http://www.canadashistory.ca/Books/...g-and-Disarming-A-History-of-Gun-Control-in-C
Another book that has a one chapter that reveals the politics, the movers & shakers behind the creation of the Firearm Act. It is an jaw dropper.
It is called:
Shaughnessy: The Passionate Politics of Shaughnessy Cohen by Susan Delacourt.
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A true history is a living one, which includes the countless ongoing abuses of this 'public policy'. The abusers are hardly in a place to chronicle anything, especially when so much is left out. They want to give the impression that it's all rosey, and neceasary, bease they have grown plump off it.
grimreefer
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I believe having your guns out at the range would qualify as "in use", and storage or transport laws wouldn't apply. I would be suprised if the individual was charged, and I think we can all agree that the gun owner would have our sympathy. Does not compare to the gross negligence or disregard for the law in the case of the gun owner in our topic.
I've seen a video of a simulated robbery. The target was a large, expensive, high-quality gun safe; the "robbers" two men armed with nothing but a long crowbar. They opened the safe in less than two minutes.
I saw that video too. Good luck doing that with a safe anchored to a floor or wall in a cramped basement or utility room. Not to say it could never be done (at the end of the day a safe is really just a deterrent) but it would take a lot more time and specialized equipment.
This situation is unfortunate. Whether you sympathize with this guy, or think the current laws are stupid, or think the theft was the bigger crime, is irrelevant. Fact: in the eyes of the public he broke the law so this is an example of an irresponsible gun owner, an example of how handguns get into the hands of criminals, and rationale for stricter controls like central storage or further ban. Going after other forum member who recognize this and are pissed at this guy, is beyond me.
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Except the Firearms Act does not define the word "use", so you would be at the mercy of the prosecutor and the judge, who may not have as much sympathy for you as fellow gun owners. I can certainly see a judge (especially one who is not a gun oner himself) finding it reckless to leave your guns and ammunition unattended while you are changing targets hundreds of yards way.
The point that I'm making, let's not be too quick to judge someone for making a mistake and finding himself afoul of a stupid and unfair law. The guy is a victim of theft for god's sake. Yes it was not smart to leave the gun in an unlocked car but it's not like he left an exposed firearm on his dash or the front seat for everyone to see. Maybe he was tired and forgot to remove it from his car. Maybe he got a call on his way back from the range saying that his wife had been diagnosed with cancer. Who knows what happened that day.
Mistake? I doubt it. How many people leave unlocked handguns with ammo in the console of their vehicles by accident? My bet is that he regularly drove around with a handgun in his console. He deserves to be held in contempt because his stupidity reflects badly on everyone who is a licensed gun owner.
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