Has anyone else had issues with powder guidelines in books being inaccurate?

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mareshow

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Like the title states I reloaded a bunch of 308 rounds and shot them for the first time last night. The cases were showing definite over pressure signs with the primers coming out on some of them. Interestingly, I was still half a grain under max in the book and according to it, it said that I was still good pressure wise even at max grains...

I'm kinda scratching my head on this one because I thought I would be fine but I guess not.

Side note at 520 yards these things were absolute tack drivers, It was awesome!
 
Are you perhaps shooting a Remington?

The books only state a min and a max and I would say their guidelines are pretty good. It is important to remember that they are only guidelines though and working up to a load is key. I have one rifle (a 6.5X55 on a 700 action) that is 1gr over max and I had another 700 in 308 that pretty much had craters on every load no matter what. My 308 I was a couple grains under max at the end of the day.

IMO, the ones with the primers coming out are too hot. However, primer issues are one of the least reliable signs of over pressure (based on all of my readings and my experience with M700s). What kind of brass are you using ? Old or new, is it cheap junk of did you buy some decent stuff, are the pockets loose? Did it show any other signs of over pressure? Was it overly loud with heavy recoil or sticky bolt lift?
 
Was that your starting point, or did you work your way up? If the primers are slightly backed out of primer pocket it could be a sign of under pressure. When a round is fired, the primer is pushed out slightly, when the round pushes back against the bolt face it pushes in the primer, sealing it. where the case necks sooty? Its always recommended to start low and work your way up, watching for under or over pressure signs.
 
Sounds like you are new to reloading.

You always have to work up; you can't (safely) just grab a higher level book load and do up a batch and shoot them, as every rifle basically has it's own set of rules.

It is not uncommon for a rifle to be clearly overpressure at max book levels and the next rifle (same make and model and similar serial #'s) to be able to be loaded past book levels.

I have personally experienced this.

It is also not safe to work up a max or near max load for one rifle and then throw those handloads into another rifle and shoot them.

I'm also wondering if you may have been using older brass with already loose primer pockets.

You should do more reading on reloading.
 
Ryan.M.Anderson said:
Are you perhaps shooting a Remington?

The books only state a min and a max and I would say their guidelines are pretty good. It is important to remember that they are only guidelines though and working up to a load is key. I have one rifle (a 6.5X55 on a 700 action) that is 1gr over max and I had another 700 in 308 that pretty much had craters on every load no matter what. My 308 I was a couple grains under max at the end of the day.

IMO, the ones with the primers coming out are too hot. However, primer issues are one of the least reliable signs of over pressure (based on all of my readings and my experience with M700s). What kind of brass are you using ? Old or new, is it cheap junk of did you buy some decent stuff, are the pockets loose? Did it show any other signs of over pressure? Was it overly loud with heavy recoil or sticky bolt lift?
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Northman999 said:
Sounds like you are new to reloading.

You always have to work up; you can't (safely) just grab a higher level book load and do up a batch and shoot them, as every rifle basically has it's own set of rules.

It is not uncommon for a rifle to be clearly overpressure at max book levels and the next rifle (same make and model and similar serial #'s) to be able to be loaded past book levels.

I have personally experienced this.

It is also not safe to work up a max or near max load for one rifle and then throw those handloads into another rifle and shoot them.

I'm also wondering if you may have been using older brass with already loose primer pockets.

You should do more reading on reloading.
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ReloaderRick said:
Was that your starting point, or did you work your way up? If the primers are slightly backed out of primer pocket it could be a sign of under pressure. When a round is fired, the primer is pushed out slightly, when the round pushes back against the bolt face it pushes in the primer, sealing it. where the case necks sooty? Its always recommended to start low and work your way up, watching for under or over pressure signs.
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They are definitely too hot after some googlefu It seems that IMR suggests a max of 42, so I'm hot after some more googlefu it seems guys are getting good results at 41 so i'm going to start at 40 and work my way up. Its out of a modern hunter, and Yes I'm a bit new to this. I had two sets of advice, one was start at the bottom and work your way up and the second was start near the top and work your way up. I took the wrong advice :(

So the brass is basically brand new, once fired hornady (factory ones that I shot cleaned and now prepped to shoot again) I'm positive it was over pressure as the experienced reloader beside me affirmed it. Looks like i'm going to take the advice and start at the bottom.
 
Rick is building the modern hunter with a match chamber which is probably a little tighter than a standard chamber and may not be the best choice for a semi auto as the three MH's I've shot so far have had some feeding reliability issues even when shooting 150gr FMJ's. I've also seen a modern hunter pierce primers shooting factory loads so you'll need to start quite low and work up carefully. What powder and projectiles are you using?
 
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I have never seen a loading manual that didn't say explicitly somewhere that you should always start low and work up. You seem to have found that out the hard, dangerous way.

Here's some more advice to the OP; get 2 or three good loading manuals and read them cover to cover before you go on web forums complaining that you think the books are misleading. Reloading is not for people who don't really want to learn how to do it properly, or for those who always want to take shortcuts.
 
cr5 said:
Rick is building the modern hunter with a match chamber which is probably a little tighter than a standard chamber and may not be the best choice for a semi auto as the three MH's I've shot so far have had some feeding reliability issues even when shooting 150gr FMJ's. I've also seen a modern hunter pierce primers shooting factory loads so you'll need to start quite low and work up carefully. What powder and projectiles are you using?
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Yeah I'm going to start lower this time, I've never thought anything of it considering it but I'm going to try around 40 and see what happens. The load i used was 42.5 gr of 3031 with 168 gr BTHP. Some google proved that I may have started too high. oh well pound em out and start over lol

rral22 said:
I have never seen a loading manual that didn't say explicitly somewhere that you should always start low and work up. You seem to have found that out the hard, dangerous way.

Here's some more advice to the OP; get 2 or three good loading manuals and read them cover to cover before you go on web forums complaining that you think the books are misleading. Reloading is not for people who don't really want to learn how to do it properly, or for those who always want to take shortcuts.
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No complaining about it, just wondering if anyone else has had issues with a not up to date manual, if you're not going to contribute to the conversation and only complain about questions being asked, then please dont contribute. Forums are here for discussion, which is what i started.

That being said I've already cross referenced and found my book to be slightly out of date so I will try again.
 
mareshow said:
Yeah I'm going to start lower this time, I've never thought anything of it considering it but I'm going to try around 40 and see what happens. The load i used was 42.5 gr of 3031 with 168 gr BTHP. Some google proved that I may have started too high. oh well pound em out and start over lol



No complaining about it, just wondering if anyone else has had issues with a not up to date manual, if you're not going to contribute to the conversation and only complain about questions being asked, then please dont contribute. Forums are here for discussion, which is what i started.

That being said I've already cross referenced and found my book to be slightly out of date so I will try again.
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Everyone on here has suggested you need to work up a load. All the manuals I have ever seen suggest the same thing. You would have learned that if you had done some real homework before you started stuffing cases. The need for "real homework" is, in fact, my advice about your concern with unreliable manuals. You need to read more. THAT is a completely relevant, partial answer to your question.

You need to learn to recognize the difference between good and bad advice too.
 
What do you mean by: "the primers coming out on some of them"?

Were some primers backed out?

Were primer pockets so loose the primers fell out?

Any pictures to help us understand?
 
Andy said:
What do you mean by: "the primers coming out on some of them"?

Were some primers backed out?

Were primer pockets so loose the primers fell out?

Any pictures to help us understand?
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I chucked the brass because i chocked it up to over pressure. The primer pockets were good, in fact i needed to ream a couple of them out because they were too tight and I flattened a primer in them. I mean the primers were right out of the pockets, not just a little bit.
 
If you were careless enough to start load development at 1/2 grain under the maximum load listed, consider yourself fortunate to have only ruined some cases. And the load data isn't inaccurate, you just neglected to work up the load in a reasonable manner for your rifle and your components.
 
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mareshow said:
I chucked the brass because i chocked it up to over pressure. The primer pockets were good, in fact i needed to ream a couple of them out because they were too tight and I flattened a primer in them. I mean the primers were right out of the pockets, not just a little bit.
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That sounds like low pressure combined with generous headspace.
 
It sounds like you are lucky you didn't blow up your nice rifle, or damage body parts. Blowing primers out of the cases usually means you are well into the territory where firearms are damaged.
 
A word about headspace .........

I will guarantee that a 4 thousand dollar rifle with a match chamber never left the ATRS shop with close to an eighth of an inch of excess headspace. (Although the rifle may well have headspace issues now!)
 
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