Could a gunsmith explain something to me please?

Dusty514

Dusty514

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Hello awesome community!

I have a question in regards to some gunsmithing work that was carried out on my little .22 (715T).

Now I sent it in for suffering from light strikes. It was, and still is, impossible to fire 5 rounds consecutively. The Smith said he milled down my bolt handle and re cut the chamber, fired 50 rounds and they all fired no problem.

I received it, went out to make sure it was repaired only to find out it still does the exact same thing. Now this happens with every type of ammo fired in it. From Winchester bulk, Remington and to my surprise CCI Mini Mags.

What I am looking for is, why would milling down my bolt handle and recutting a chamber fix a light strike? I examined the rounds that failed to fire and there was no indication that the firing pin struck the rim. There is some scratching around the rim but nothing like a clear mark from the pin.

I kindly asked for an explanation of the work carried out only to get a rude email back saying I was being unreasonable for questioning their work... They have not responded since.

So, now pulling my bolt handle is harder than it was previously and it still doesn't go bang every time I pull the trigger. Sometimes striking the same round 3-4 times will still fail to set it off.

Sorry if this is a simple issue but I am stumped!

Thanks in advance!
 
sounds like they may have been tying to correct a headspace problem that may or may not exist .......

did you find out what ammo they used ?

btw have you cleaned the firing pin ?

if not clean it and only use dry graphite to lube it and see if that makes a difference .
 
Thanks for the quick reply!

Yes I did clean it, I actually cleaned the whole firearm to make sure everything was where I left it.

They did not tell me what they used unfortunately. I understand some rifles are picky with what they will eat and that's why I tried 3 variations, from super cheap to a little more expensive and reliable CCI.

I kind of figured a head space issue but would that be an issue if it wasn't firing? I'm super confused and waiting to hear back from Mossberg.

Thanks so much for your input! I really appreciate it, the knowledge here is amazing and a great bunch of people!
 
I kind of don't want to name and shame... It is the recommended service center for Mossberg in Canada. A quick Google should provide you the information.

I really don't want to break any rules as I am still a "newbie" and this place is full.of valuable info!
 
With the bolt closed... can you force the bolt handle ahead? Is there movement? There should not be. The bolt should butt against the barrel.

Milling the bolt handle - I don't understand what he did?

and re cutting the chamber - unless he set the barrel back you now probably have excessive headspace which is a big reason rim fires misfire.

I would send it back and tell them they have done nothing to correct the misfire and you wish that to be fixed. That everyone on CGN is waiting on the outcome.
 
Hey Guntech, the bolt handle wiggles like hell now, it's super floppy. When I apply pressure, it does move ahead about a millimeter, maybe a little more. The whole bolt carrier is all floppy! It isn't snug at all.

Seems like it seat's when I release it but if I press forward, I can see the entire bolt carrier moving to the side and as I mentioned, it moves forwards a little bit.

This is so frustrating, I know it's a cheap firearm but it should go bang every time I pull the trigger!

I have asked Mossberg if they have another recommended service center that I can send it to because these guys have been nothing but impolite and claim it was fixed and shipped on a Friday only for it to be shipped 9 days later.

Thank you everyone for the insight on the matter, I am worried now about excessive head space so hopefully Mossberg has a better plan for this plinkster.
 
Hey Kevin, I couldn't agree anymore!

To clarify on the bolt handle, the back side was milled down and I have no idea as to why as my complaint wasn't that it stays open after firing. Based on what I've read, if the bolt caught up after every round then perhaps yes, the bolt handle needed to be reworked.

They shaved off a couple of mils and it feels as though I need to pull it harder to release it and load a round. Very bizarre...
 
Dusty514 said:
Hey Guntech, the bolt handle wiggles like hell now, it's super floppy. When I apply pressure, it does move ahead about a millimeter, maybe a little more. The whole bolt carrier is all floppy! It isn't snug at all.

Seems like it seat's when I release it but if I press forward, I can see the entire bolt carrier moving to the side and as I mentioned, it moves forwards a little bit.

This is so frustrating, I know it's a cheap firearm but it should go bang every time I pull the trigger!

I have asked Mossberg if they have another recommended service center that I can send it to because these guys have been nothing but impolite and claim it was fixed and shipped on a Friday only for it to be shipped 9 days later.

Thank you everyone for the insight on the matter, I am worried now about excessive head space so hopefully Mossberg has a better plan for this plinkster.
Click to expand...

It would appear the person who milled the bolt handle screwed up. It will take a new bolt to correct the excessive headspace. You could try and hold the bolt as far forward as hard as you can and see if it fires... if it fires the back of the case will probably bulge convex... this would confirm excessive headspace.
 
Thanks guntech, is it possible this could cause harm to my hand? I know it's a 22 but that bolt fly's back pretty quick and hard. I would like to test this because then I can prove for a fact that they have failed to properly fix the issue.

Just trying to keep all my fingers and hand intact lol!
 
Sounds like mossberg's recommended service centre has just earned you at minimum a new bolt, and even better for all this f-around would be a new rifle.
 

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Gunneegoogoo said:
Sounds like mossberg's recommended service centre has just earned you at minimum a new bolt, and even better for all this f-around would be a new rifle.
Click to expand...

I would at least hope so!

Thank you to everyone that has chimed in! I am impatiently waiting an answer from Mossberg, hopefully tomorrow sometime. Ideally yes, I would like a replacement rifle. I refuse to send it to these people who performed the less than professional work.
 
It can be a serious challenge when the designated service point for mfgr warranty is not very competent.

This is one of the "Achilles heels" of the Canadian retail firearm industry.

I've read horror stories about other mfgr service point reps that give me trepidation's
about buying a mfgr product, knowing that the Canadian warranty service will be garbage.

Sometimes there is more than one warranty depot rep. which offers the option
of guiding the work to the depot that has a better reputation.

You might want to contact Mossberg in the US and tell them your tale of woe.
They may be able to arrange for better Canadian service than your have received to date.

http://www.mossberg.com/customer-service/

service@mossberg.com
(800) 363-3555

Mossberg lists two warranty orgs for Canada:

Grech Outdoors, Inc.
115 Fergus Street South
Mount Forest, Ontario N0G 2L2
(519) 509-4867

Wortner Gun Works
433 Queen Street
Chatham, Ontario N7M 2J1
(519) 352-0924
 
Thanks rod, I have contacted Mossberg directly.

The nice folks @ Wortner said they wouldn't have a problem looking at the damage. Turnaround time is the issue with hunting season starting. Oops! Did I just give out the culprit?
 
Dusty514 said:
Thanks guntech, is it possible this could cause harm to my hand? I know it's a 22 but that bolt fly's back pretty quick and hard. I would like to test this because then I can prove for a fact that they have failed to properly fix the issue.

Just trying to keep all my fingers and hand intact lol!
Click to expand...

I would have no hesitation in doing it myself... it isn't going to move back much...
 
When I bought my Marlin Model 60, new, about 5 years ago I ran a patch through the bore and gave it a squirt of RemOil in the action, then it was off to the range with a bunch or ammo. Now I started off with Remington's budget line Thunderbolts and as I actually expected I was getting a failure to fire, initially, at least once in every magazine tube, light strikes. After a hundred rounds I gave the action a blast of gun scrubber to clean out the mess, I bought the Model 60 that has the synthetic stock so I was not worried about contaminating the stock, gave it another squirt of RemOil and went back to throwing the rounds down range. By the end of the second hundred rounds my failure to fires had dropped to just about nil with me having about 10 rounds sitting to the side that had the light strikes.

I took a break from breaking in the Marlin and loaded the light strikes into the magazine of my CZ 455 and sent them down range, all but 2 round fired so I count those two as duds. I then returned to the Marlin and after giving it the spray of oil went back to shooting her. I'd brought a brick of 500 Thunderbolts with me as well as Winchester's bulk pack, I knew the gun was going to need a good breaking in. Semiautomatic 22s are simple blowback design and use a spring to hold the bolt against the face of the barrel for headspacing so rough rails, dirt and or grime from manufacturing or shipping can hinder the bolt making it all the way forward. The light strike occurs when the hammer drives the bolt the last bit forward and also drives the firing pin, barely, into the cartridge. Firing and cleaning the action allowed for the rails to polish and gunk to be cleared out. Oh yeah the trigger noticeably improved as the shooting session went on too. I know it was a hard job, spending a nice late spring or early summer day out at the range, all by myself with only the guns and targets to keep me company.

So what do I think about the Mossberg and the service you got? Well since you didn't say how many rounds you fired before you sent it in I can't judge there. But I would guess that he lightened the bolt in hopes of increasing the bolt's forward speed to aid in closing the action and he recut the chamber to reduce the headspacing in the gun.
 
Hey GLS,

I have fired probably 700-900 rounds out of it ( this is being generous as I was unable to successfully fire all 10 rounds from the magazine every single magazine ). I thoroughly cleaned it when I purchased it as I do all firearms. Now, this issue has happened since the first time I fired it. I though I had a bunch of duds, tried multiple types of ammo and that's when I thought there is no way that many rounds fail to fire.

I took apart the trigger assembly, examined everything to make sure the hammer was fine and springs as well. I though maybe some buildup was preventing the hammer from hitting as hard as it should. Throw it all back together and go out only for the same issue to happen again. I made sure there was no obstructions around the head, everything was lubed and clean. Same deal...

Now I put a pool of ammo on my gun case, my good friend was with me with his 10/22 and we used the same ammo. His went 10/10, I got 3/10. Do it again, same results. Look at the brass, no indication of the firing pin striking it. Bizarre... Then we tried his federal premium stuff, same thing. 10/10 for him, 3/10 for this guy...

I'm not a gun smith and this is why I am confused. I'm not sure how it will fire occasionally and then halt. As I mentioned previously, striking the same round multiple times fails to fire. The odd time it does work but I would say that happens maybe 3% of the time.

Upon further inspection, I've notice the brass has scratches from the projectile down to the rim, and the rim as some marks on the side as if the pin was hitting it way below where it should, kind of like skimming it.

It's just frustrating how I can be told 50 rounds fired successfully yet when I shoot it, it fails immediately. Maybe it's the luck of the Irish, or lack thereof.
 
I took some pictures of 2 rounds that did not fire, the first you can clearly see where the pin hit but did not hit hard enough.
The 2nd is the odd marks on the rim.

I don't know if this helps but I figured I would post some pictures.

Is it possible the marks are from the feed ramp? I looked at some that fired correctly and there are no deep marks like that on them...

8T8BRzG.jpg


yP1OpRy.jpg
 
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How does the leading edge of the shell stripper on the bottom of the bolt look? Insert a full mag, drop the bolt and load a shell in the gun, now drop the mag and inspect the top of the next round in the mag, does it have scratches on the top? (Obvious to say do this in the direction and place where it is safe to discharge the firearm) Is this where the damage on the shell you see is coming from?

On the bottom of the bolt should be a rib that strips the shell out of the mag and once past the mags feed lips the tension of the mag spring will push the shell up into the bolt and chamber it. I've had a new bolt action before that the leading edge of the stripper was sharp and didn't have a slight bevel on it and would scratch the next shell making it hard to chamber when it loaded next, if it was a semi auto it likely would not have fully seated, even by hand when the mag was full and spring tension at max it was hard to close the bolt and it would gouge the lead of the round leaving a burr. Gun would not operate proper at all, I took a small file and beveled the edge and worked perfect after.

FYI I inspected the bolt on my .17HMR of the same make and another .22 the same and they had the bevel, mine must have just missed that step.
 
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