Vetterli 41 swiss

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Looking for help with a Vetterli
I belive it is chambered in 41 swiss
I would like to convert it to a center fire.
I am assuming from the mechanics of this action that it is not to involved.

Would just prefer to learn from others rather then make my own mistakes.

Would also be interested in some brass if possible

Thanks in advance
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Hi, I've converted a number of them to centerfire. And make brass for them as well. They are not difficult to convert, but it is much easier if you have a lathe or milling machine. But it can be done with a good drill press. Brass is made from 8mm Lebel brass. The trick is that the chambers and bores can vary, and brass needs to be made accordingly. You can google how to do the conversion, or pm me if you have specific questions.
 
Check out the Swiss rifle website and forum (under Vetterlis of course). Ample reading and info.
An economical old rifle to shoot, fun, and a great conversation starter at the range.
Downside for me is that SR4759 is no longer available. Other options fortunately.
Cheers
Jaguar/TheCounty
 
348 Win brass is a bit small at the rim, but has extracted well in all the guns I've used it in, and might be a bit too large in base diameter for some guns. For those reasons, 8X50R Lebel brass is a bit better choice, however I've stuck with 348 Win.

I have some of my surplus 348 Win brass on the EE as we speak.
 
Here are some Smokeless loads using a 300 gr cast bullet, that all top out at 12K psi - these are mild for the Swiss Vetterli:

41%20Swiss%20Quickload_zpsvl56l3kh.jpg


I like the 4198's and SR-4759 which is similar to AA5744.
 
Did the center fire conversion last night. Either my bolt(69/71) was hardened, or drill bits where crap. Hardware stores sell crap drill bits.
I'll have to get good ones from an industrial supplier. Started with a Mastercraft 5/64 crap bit. No use. Went with smaller .050±" cobalt coated bit which eventually got through.
Then found a #49 .0730" Cobalt drill in the shop and finished it off.
Took forever with a good cordless 2amp Dewalt hand drill. My bolt face is very thick. My arthritic hand joints really ache this morning.
If you have a friend with a lathe, he is a friend indeed. :)

Some fitting of the Teflon firing pin holder was needed to fit the contours of the slot. Sandpaper flat on table surface, used 1000 grit. 400 would be faster
Drilled the hole in the Teflon holder after it was fitted and installed in the bolt slot to avoid any misalignment through the bolt face firing pin hole.

The RCBS firing pin protrude quit a bit (0.095") so I ground it down to 0.054" protrusion with rounded profile.
I squared up the shoulder radius on the decapping pin head by chucking the pin in the drill and turning it against a square file.

Used a large 3/8" nut to help screw in the rear bolt cap against a wood workbench top. Nut between the table and the cap so rod has space. Bolt spring is quite stiff.

bolt-detail.jpg


Leaving soon to work on some target frames and fire form some 8x50R Lebel cases, then decide how long I need to trim the cases down so I can use some .44cal pistol bullets and still have the 2.200 inch cartridge length I need to feed from the tube magazine.
 
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Pictures with a cellphone.
8x50R Lebel brass used to fire form 41 Swiss. Annealed cases before doing anything else.
Charge used 10grs. of Hodgdon Tightgroup, with Cream of wheat over the charges to just below top of neck and hot wax dripped from candle to seal.

First three cases I cut and trimmed down just above shoulder. two fire formed on left. Unfired on right.
20160827_112917_resized_zpsds8rjzo1.jpg


Used an old Pacific pistol Powder Measure to dispense the cream of wheat directly into the case. Used 5gr of Bullseye powder volume drum with 5 1/2 throws per case

Left 8 more Lebel cases full length. to see if they would eject at that length, which they did with some help from gravity.
20160827_113156_resized_zpshpz0jih8.jpg


Now I'll can see how long I can trim the cases with the bullets I plan to use and still have an overall length of 2.2" for magazine feed.

A Pacific Pistol Powder Measure As I used for the Cream of wheat filling. Worked really well. Very tidy.
dscn1094.jpg_thumbnail0_zps9hivggkk.jpg
 
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Loaded the fire formed brass with some cast .44cal 330gr bullets. They were originally .433 inch so resized them down to .429 to fit the cases without belling the case mouths. Worked out pretty well.
 
diopter said:
Loaded the fire formed brass with some cast .44cal 330gr bullets. They were originally .433 inch so resized them down to .429 to fit the cases without belling the case mouths. Worked out pretty well.
Click to expand...

If you sized then down solely to fit the case mouths without belling, that might have been a mistake. Their size needs to be 1-2 thou over groove diameter, and yet small enough to allow for sufficient neck clearance in the chamber (not likely a problem in a Vetterli!)

I have on occasion used a 50 BMG dummy to bell case mouths when my Lee Case Expanding Die or other tools weren't suitable.
 
Waiting on a Lee case Expanding die. Was impatient to get it going and I had the .429 bullet sizer lying around gathering dust and screaming "Use me!". Accuracy wasn't bad at short range. Surprisingly good as a matter of fact. If long range session shows inaccuracy, may try a .430 sizer, or larger.
 
If your throat allows it, you might be able to use the bullets unsized. This depends on knowing your bore and chamber dimensions. I have a Vetterli in which I use a bullet 0.003" over groove diameter (0.432" gas checked in a 0.429" minimum groove barrel) and it shoots well. There's nothing dangerous going that far over groove diameter, in fact tests suggest that it can lower pressure - counter-intuitive, but shown by testing. No bores have lands and grooves that are exactly parallel, and these old guns like the Vetterli vary quite a bit and are often 3-5 thou larger at the chamber end than the muzzle - another reason to consider unsized cast bullets in the Vetterli.

What load did you use and did your chronograph it? I use 310 gr gas checked bullets (the Lee bullet for 44 Mag) and have driven it as fast as 1450 fps with the slower smokeless powders like 4198 and even full cases of pulled Swedish 8X63 powder which has a burn rate in the 4064 range - a few "crinklers", but an accurate load.
 
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Just wanted to get some bullets downrange and see if the pitting in the barrel is cause for concern before continuing on with more fire forming and reloading.
Just shot 11 bullets and used the same load as I fire formed with, 10grs Tightgroup. I'll check and clean the barrel tonight. and see what happened with the pitting.
Great rifling except for the pitting on the left side of the barrel. Need to restock on some of the faster rifle powders again.
 
seems to be working for you and the pits are not affecting your accurcy .As others said leave the bullets unsized and see if it chambers if it does run with it
 
Chrono data from tonight:
325grs. cast bullet with 10grs. Tightgroup with Win LR primers.

Three groups of three rounds.
Three cases shorter by .050 inch with .433 inch bullets resized to .429
1253, 1215, 1223

Longer cases with .429 inch bullets
1200, 1194, 1196

Longer cases with .433 bullets.
1225, 1218, 1227

Impact 13 inches high at 40yds, 3 inches left.
 
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I have a few extra "Tall Sights" that will fix that. PM me with your details.

Vetterli_Front_Sight_Chickentheif_zps3cb48c2a.jpg
 
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