17 Hornet

[MajorMalcontent]

I finally got to load up some Lil Gun to try in my 17 Hornet, and the starting load produced 3777fps at 28 degrees. I trust the magnetospeed, but other than the velocity, I see no indication of excess pressure. No flattening on the primers, no brass extrusion, no extra resistance lifting the bolt, but I will reduce the powder charge a bit and recheck the speed anyways. Accuracy was right around 1/2moa for five shots.

I'd go easy with Lil' Gun. In my experience the max loads you'll find on the web (10gr w/ 20gr VMAX) are way over pressure. Velocities are pretty impressive, but you'll wreck your brass. When I was first working up loads with Lil' Gun and the 20gr VMAX, I started at 9.6 and and moved up in increments of .1gr to a max of 10grs. I loaded 10 of each charge except for 9.9 and 10.0 for which I loaded 5 each for a total of 40 rounds. My plan was to chrono 4 of each load and shoot the other 6 to determine accuracy. Not by design, but I thought it might be revealing and so went ahead with it, the first cases were new, unfired Hornady stuff, the second 25 were once fired, formerly factory loads. So at the 9.8gr threshold, 5 were new brass, 5 were once fired. I also loaded up 10 rounds of 25gr Rem HP for the first time just to see what would happen. While I didn't write it down, I believe the temperature was around 18 degrees.

Here are the results:

At shot number 5 of the 9.8gr load (new brass), I experienced a severe primer leak. Not a blown primer, not pierced, just leaked real bad around the whole perimeter. Interesting the balance of the loads, including the hotter ones, didn't leak or otherwise fail. However, the primer pocket for that failed primer will no longer hold a new primer. In fact from what I can tell, all of them from 9.8 on will either just barely, or won't hold one. So I wrecked a good bunch of relatively new brass even though the primers didn't look bad. I came across another case, that looks to have been one of the new brass that I'd loaded and fired, that also wouldn't hold a primer when I went to reload it, even though the primer in the original load didn't fail.

Inspecting my brass more closely recently I've determined that (measured at the base of the web) a case that expands to .295" will hold a primer adequately for reloading, but at .296" and beyond the pockets are pretty well shot. The two above (the leaked one and the badly stretched one) measure .299". SAAMI spec for the cartridge in that location is .294" FWIW.

I've read at least one other forum thread somewhere where another .17 Hornet shooter concluded the same as me: that 9.6grs of Lil' Gun is about max and 10 is way too hot. At least in our guns; I don't recall what his was but mine is a Savage M-25. Hope this is helpful.

Cheers.

 

[stubblejumper]

I'd go easy with Lil' Gun. In my experience the max loads you'll find on the web (10gr w/ 20gr VMAX) are way over pressure. Velocities are pretty impressive, but you'll wreck your brass. When I was first working up loads with Lil' Gun and the 20gr VMAX, I started at 9.6 and and moved up in increments of .1gr to a max of 10grs. I loaded 10 of each charge except for 9.9 and 10.0 for which I loaded 5 each for a total of 40 rounds. My plan was to chrono 4 of each load and shoot the other 6 to determine accuracy. Not by design, but I thought it might be revealing and so went ahead with it, the first cases were new, unfired Hornady stuff, the second 25 were once fired, formerly factory loads. So at the 9.8gr threshold, 5 were new brass, 5 were once fired. I also loaded up 10 rounds of 25gr Rem HP for the first time just to see what would happen. While I didn't write it down, I believe the temperature was around 18 degrees.

Here are the results:

At shot number 5 of the 9.8gr load (new brass), I experienced a severe primer leak. Not a blown primer, not pierced, just leaked real bad around the whole perimeter. Interesting the balance of the loads, including the hotter ones, didn't leak or otherwise fail. However, the primer pocket for that failed primer will no longer hold a new primer. In fact from what I can tell, all of them from 9.8 on will either just barely, or won't hold one. So I wrecked a good bunch of relatively new brass even though the primers didn't look bad. I came across another case, that looks to have been one of the new brass that I'd loaded and fired, that also wouldn't hold a primer when I went to reload it, even though the primer in the original load didn't fail.

Inspecting my brass more closely recently I've determined that (measured at the base of the web) a case that expands to .295" will hold a primer adequately for reloading, but at .296" and beyond the pockets are pretty well shot. The two above (the leaked one and the badly stretched one) measure .299". SAAMI spec for the cartridge in that location is .294" FWIW.

I've read at least one other forum thread somewhere where another .17 Hornet shooter concluded the same as me: that 9.6grs of Lil' Gun is about max and 10 is way too hot. At least in our guns; I don't recall what his was but mine is a Savage M-25. Hope this is helpful.

Cheers.

I dropped down to 9.5gr today, and it was only 17 degrees for a reduction in velocity of around 100fps. The accuracy was not quite as good, at .600" for five shots at 100m, but I intend to vary the seating depth to see if I can improve the accuracy a bit.

 

[MajorMalcontent]

I dropped down to 9.5gr today, and it was only 17 degrees for a reduction in velocity of around 100fps. The accuracy was not quite as good, at .600" for five shots at 100m, but I intend to vary the seating depth to see if I can improve the accuracy a bit.

9.5grs is pretty much where I've landed as well. I loaded some up at 9.6 last night to do some focused comparisons; in my most recent testing they seem to be comparable in accuracy, but I'll give both of those loads a work out and see how they compare. BTW, what are you using for primers?

 

[MajorMalcontent]

I finally picked up a 17 Hornet. Got a good deal on a new Ruger 77/17 stainless laminate. Hope it shoots well. Just have to figure out what scope to mount on it. Have Bushnell Legend HD 4.5-14x44 scopes mounted on both a Ruger 77/22 Hornet, and a CZ 452 22 magnum. Glass seems pretty good for the price point. Or have a 6500 Elite 2.5-16x42 I could mount if I can find 30mm rings.

I'm not opposed to buying another scope. What scopes are you guys using for gophers on your 17 Hornet?

I have the Legend HD 4.5-14 on my .17 Hornet. I'm happy with it.

 

[stubblejumper]

9.5grs is pretty much where I've landed as well. I loaded some up at 9.6 last night to do some focused comparisons; in my most recent testing they seem to be comparable in accuracy, but I'll give both of those loads a work out and see how they compare. BTW, what are you using for primers?

Remington 7-1/2BR

 

[dead meat]

I need to get going and start reloading for my 17hornet. I have some lil gun and a small stash of bullets now so just need time.

 

[stubblejumper]

I varied the seating depth and shot the 9.5gr load again today, and closer to the lands definitely improves the accuracy in my rifle. At .005" off of the lands, the load is shooting sub 1/2moa, with 4 out of five rounds in .300" at 100m. The fifth round was one of those shots that just didn't feel right, I should have relaxed and waited a minute, but I was in a hurry and the fifth shot opened the group up to just over.500".

 

[Prairie Plinker]

I'd go easy with Lil' Gun.......

I've read at least one other forum thread somewhere where another .17 Hornet shooter concluded the same as me: that 9.6grs of Lil' Gun is about max and 10 is way too hot. At least in our guns; I don't recall what his was but mine is a Savage M-25. Hope this is helpful.

Cheers.

I'm not sure if you're talking about me or not but I have posted the same a couple of times. I've settled on 9.6gr of Lil'Gun for my 20gr Vmax gopher detonators. On a hot day anything with more pop behind it was showing signs of being over-pressure. 527 varmint fwiw.

 

[MajorMalcontent]

Although cheap to load and not bad, the savage 25s aren't great guns. I'd look at a ruger or a CZ before touching one of those savages.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment of the Savage. I have one, Model 25 LWV, and it's a fine gun. No complaints. I know they're not everyone's cup-o-tea, but they are fine guns.

 

[stubblejumper]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with your assessment of the Savage. I have one, Model 25 LWV, and it's a fine gun. No complaints. I know they're not everyone's cup-o-tea, but they are fine guns.

Perhaps you were just lucky. Look at post #3 on this thread.Obviously Southernman wasn't as lucky as you were. I know Southernman personally, he doesn't exaggerate about things like this.

I do not recommend the savage walking varmint for a rifle, mine had lots of issues, poor feeding, scope mounts off center, fail to eject etc.
I think you will enjoy a .17 hornet, I am, fun little Cal, cheap to run, and considerable performance for a small package, My rim fires, haven't seen much use since I got mine.

 

[MajorMalcontent]

Perhaps you were just lucky. Look at post #3 on this thread.Obviously Southernman wasn't as lucky as you were. I know Southernman personally, he doesn't exaggerate about things like this.

I have been doing a lot of research on the interwebs re people's experience with the Savage 25. Two things become apparent; there were quite a few people who seemed to have issues with early copies of the M25 in 17HH (loading, ejection, etc), but many of the issues turned out to be faulty batches of ammo produced by Hornady. Even Craig Boddington in 2011 acknowledged that Savage had said they were having challenges in the early development with reliable loading. The other thing that occurs is that when someone is disappointed with a product the complaints tend to get repeated over and over. I've no doubt Southernman is a level-headed, fair minded, credible person who was unlucky with the one he got.

But the other side of the coin is that I have also found many people who have commented that they are very happy with theirs. Compaints get repeated far more often than praise.

 

[southernman]

Yep as stubblejumper has commented, the savage 25, I had was very poor, with multiple problems,
jamming when loading, fail to extract, would only load in to chamber, if bolt was flicked forward quickly, if you tried to load slowly or quietly, bullet tip would drop down and catch on the barrel under the chamber, (no feed ramp) and a non controlled round action,
Fail to pick up a round out of mag, multiple times.
bolt was very stiff to ####,
scope mounting holes off center to barrel, I had to buy windage adjustable mounts, to get a VX3 4x14 x52 on target,
Chamber was very oversize, forget now how much, but brass was so oversize, it was a struggle to force it into the full length die,
I suspect head space was not correct, but as you said, early ammo was very hot.

Rifle did shoot very accurately ( sub 1/2" at 100m), it fitted me well,
I might have tolerated one of the above defects on a cheap center-fire rifle, but not several,
What soured me most, was both the local sports store, were I bought it, and savage them selves, when I rang them, total disinterest in doing anything about,

I am glad the rifle you have, is working and functioning well for you, mine didn't, and was fit only, for a burn barrel and a chop saw.