Measuring 10 grains of FFF

Nervvv

Nervvv

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How can i properly measure 10 grains of FFF. I know that 10 grains is equal to 0.6 of a gram, can i just use a scale to measure that out or do i need something to actually measure to volume? Is grains measured in volume instead of weight or vise versa? Thanks.
 
You must measure real black powder by volume, do not weigh it. The other great thing about Black powder is that using a little too much isn't going to blow a gun up, unlike smokeless.

Use an empty casing:

Cartridge Grains
.22 LR = 5
.320 ACP = 7
.380 ACP = 10
9mm = 13.3
.40 S&W = 19.3
.38 Special = 23
.45 Auto = 26
.357 Mag = 27
.44 Spl = 34
.44 Rem Mag = 39
.45 Colt = 41.6

Another list:

Case name / H2O capacity.

14 Hornet 12
.17 Hornet 14
.17 Rem 27
.204 Ruger 33
.22 Hornet 14
.22 K-Hornet 15
.218 Bee 18
.22 Rem Jet 18
.221 Rem 21
.222 Rem 27
.223 Rem 31
.222 Rem Mag 32
5.6x50R 34
.219 Zipper 34
.225 Win 41
.22-250 Rem 43
.220 Swift 48
.223 WSSM 53
.22-06 65
.22-15 Stevens 17
.22 Sav 35
6x47 33
6x52R Bret. 36
6x70R 39
.243 Win 54
6 Rem 55
.240 Wea Mag 65
6x62R 67
.236 USN 51
.240 Fl. N.E. 58
.25-20 WCF 19
.256 Win 22
.25-21 Stevens 25
.25-25 Stevens 29
.25-36 Marlin 37
.25-35 WCF 37
.25 Rem 42
.250 Sav 46
.257 Roberts 56
.25-06 Rem 66
.257 Wea Mag 84
6.5x70R 39
6.5 Jap. 48
6.5x52 Carcano 49
6.5x53R 49
6.5x54 M-S(.256) 50
.260 Rem 53
6.5x55 57
6.5x57(R) 58
6.5 Rem Mag 68
.264 Win Mag 82
.270 REN 16
.270 Win 68
.270 Wea 83
.28-30 Stevens 37
7-30 Waters 45
7x72R 54
7-08 Rem 56
7x57(R) Mauser 59
.284 Win 66
.280 Rem 67
7x65R 68
7 WSM 81
7 Rem Mag 84
.30 Carbine 21
.30-357 AeT 25
.30-30 45
.30 Rem 46
.303 Sav 48
.300 Sav 52
.307 Win 54
7.62 NATO 54
.308 Win 56
.30 Fl.NE Purdey 58
.30-40 U.S. 58
.30-06 U.S. 69
.300 H&H 86
.300 Win Mag 89
.30 Fl. H&H 90
.300 Wea Mag 99
.30-378 130
7.62x54R 64
.303 Brit 57
.375/303 W-R 62
.32-20 WCF 22
7.65 Mauser 58
8x72R 59
.32-40 Ballard 41
8x50R Lebel 66
8x57(R) Mauser 62
8-06 70
8 Rem Mag 98
.318 W-R 69
.333 Jeffery 86
.33 WCF 63
.338-06 70
.338 Win Mag 86
.340 Wea Mag 98
.338-378 132
.348 Win 75
9x57(R) Mauser 62
.357 Mag 27
.357 Max 34
.357/44 B&D 35
.400/350 Rigby 78
.350 ME Guide 2 49
.35 Rem 51
.356 Win 57
.358 Win 57
.35 WCF 69
.35 Whelen 71
.35 Greevy 72
.350 Rem Mag 73
.358 Norma Mag 88
9.3x57 Mauser 64
9.3x54R Finn. 65
9.3x72R 67
9.3x62 77
9.3x74R 82
.360 No.2 NE 111
.375 Win 49
.38-56 Win 62
.375 2½ N.E. 67
.375-06 73
.375 H&H 95
.375 Fl. Mag 97
.375 Ruger 100
.369 N.E. 102
.378 Wea Mag 136
.38-55 Ballard 52
.38-72 Win 74
.38-40 WCF 40
.400 Whelen 75
.405 Win 78
.400 Jeffery 117
.450/400 NE 3¼ 123
.416 Taylor 92
.416 Rem Mag 107
.416 Rigby 130
.416 Wea Mag 134
.423 OKH 77
.404 Jeffery 113
.44-40 WCF 40
.44 Spl 34
.44 Rem Mag 39
.444 Marlin 69
.45 Colt 42
.454 Casull 47
.45-70 U.S. 79
.450 Marlin 74
.45-90 2.4" 90
.458 Win Mag 94
.458 Lott 108
.450 3¼ N.E. 129
.460 Wea Mag 140
.465 N.E. 144
.470 N.E. 146
.475 3¼ N.E. 137
.50-110 109
.50 BMG 293
 
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Well its for a 380 webley bulldog, so basically a 380 acp would be proper measuring? I ordered a reloading kit which came with brass and bullets the brass is 380 bulldog short, so which would i use? Can i use that case?
 
For black powder, simply fill the case up so that when the bullet is seated there is no air gap. The bullet can also slightly compress the powder. I personally measure my black powder charges for cartridges by wheight since I find it more accurate than volume.

Powder volume or wheight do not really matter, so long as there is no air gap or the powder over compressed. Measuring is only used for consistency between bullets.
 
I just reloaded them i filled it basically so the black poweder is barley touching the bullet. Should be ok, ill know when i test it out i guess lol, i didnt want to load to much so it was compressed to much so i left a little bit of space. You think it should be fine? I wanted to just load it light for the first time and see how the gun fires.
 
Tyockell18 said:
You must measure real black powder by volume, do not weigh it. The other great thing about Black powder is that using a little too much isn't going to blow a gun up, unlike smokeless.

WRONG!! A grain is a measure of weight, not volume. One grain Avoirdupois scale is 1/7000 of a pound and is the unit of weight used on powder scales. However, it is common to create a volume measure that holds a know weight of powder then use that volume measure in lieu of weighing each charge. A fraction of a grain is not considered as critical in measuring black powder or BP substitutes as when measuring out smokeless powder that can create much higher pressures. So weigh out 10 grains of your FFFg then create a measure that just holds that same volume and carry on.
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Ol' Flinter said:
WRONG!! A grain is a measure of weight, not volume. One grain Avoirdupois scale is 1/7000 of a pound and is the unit of weight used on powder scales. However, it is common to create a volume measure that holds a know weight of powder then use that volume measure in lieu of weighing each charge. A fraction of a grain is not considered as critical in measuring black powder or BP substitutes as when measuring out smokeless powder that can create much higher pressures. So weigh out 10 grains of your FFFg then create a measure that just holds that same volume and carry on.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but you are only partly correct, OF. Shooting the Holy Black is a wonderful trip back in time, with many old archaic traditions; some do not necessarily make complete sense, today. Grain measure is one of these. If you are weighing a bullet it is a unit of weight, if you are measuring black powder it was originally a measure of volume. Example: My Kentucky Long Rifle is .50 cal, it shoots a round lead ball of 184 grains(gn) weight; to do this I measure 60 'grains' of powder from my powder horn with a volumetric measure. This charge will vary, depending on the density of my current brand of powder; Goex is nominally less dense than Swiss. Goex also varies much more from batch to batch than Swiss (but Swiss has been making the Holy Black for longer than anyone else). In my Flintlock the difference in charge density this creates at normal Flintlock ranges is negligible. Take this out to the ranges of BPCR (black powder cartridge rifles) and this becomes very serious indeed, but these guns are looking to drop irregularly shaped steel targets at up to 900 yards, consistently, with black powder, hand loaded cartridges. To do this some people use volumetric measure and some use weight, but all serious, successful competitors take into account the charge density of the loaded powder in some way. In my 45/70 Gov't I measure by weight, but only for a particular batch (density) of powder, the absolute weight of the charge is determined by the real range performance of the system (grouping). This is also why many serious BPCR shooters purchase black powder in large lots and even then blend different lots together, for consistency.
 
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Okay with all that being said is it okay that i left a bit of space between the bullet and powder? Or do i got to go get a bullet puller and fill it back to the top?!?!?!
 
Nervvv said:
Okay with all that being said is it okay that i left a bit of space between the bullet and powder? Or do i got to go get a bullet puller and fill it back to the top?!?!?!
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I would not recommend to ever allow an air space in a black powder loaded cartridge. It is just not predictably safe. You will not likely hurt yourself, but you just might ruin a good gun.:) Sorry.

PS. A felt wad will take up the space very nicely too.
 
Edenchef said:
I would not recommend to ever allow an air space in a black powder loaded cartridge. It is just not predictably safe. You will not likely hurt yourself, but you just might ruin a good gun.:) Sorry.

PS. A felt wad will take up the space very nicely too.
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Ok thanks, sorry i kinda jumped the gun and thought id go ahead and reload them without proper knowledge, got to excited! So a regular bullet puller should do a good job of not damaging anything, even with a soft lead bullet? I only got 12 cases and 25 bullets do i dont want to ruin anything
 
Edenchef said:
I would not recommend to ever allow an air space in a black powder loaded cartridge. It is just not predictably safe. You will not likely hurt yourself, but you just might ruin a good gun.:) Sorry.

PS. A felt wad will take up the space very nicely too.
Click to expand...


Best plan when using lesser charges in an older gun, or even a modern replication.

An example of the effects of leaving an air-space twixt powder and ball is hanging on the wall of our local gun-store. The rifle is a near-mint Parker-Hale P53 Enfield, that had been shot just half a dozen times. As is usual, there was a build-up of clag about four or five inches up the bore from the breech, and the noob BP shooter had simply stopped trying to load past it. Sixty five grains of 3Fg blew the bore out to almost two inches diameter, with a couple of longitudinal splits. The wood was what caused most injury to the shooter, who needed reconstructive surgery to his left hand. He had succeeded in setting off a pipe-bomb in his hands

A lesser-quality gun may have caused very serious injury or even death.

tac
 
Nervvv said:
Ok thanks, sorry i kinda jumped the gun and thought id go ahead and reload them without proper knowledge, got to excited! So a regular bullet puller should do a good job of not damaging anything, even with a soft lead bullet? I only got 12 cases and 25 bullets do i dont want to ruin anything
Click to expand...

This, Sir, can kill you. You are 'playing' with an explosive substance and it behooves you to learn as much as you can before going down the shooting road. As for pulling the bullet, a good-quality inertia bullet and gentle tapping will do the business for you.

tac
 
Black powder, by weight or volume, it depends upon the situation.

For my Pedersoli .54 caliber Hawken, I use an adjustable measure. Currently I use 50 grains for trail walks.

For my .44-40 Henry, I throw a volume charge, put it on a scale and trickle powder up to the weight I want, usually 28 to 33 grains.
 
Okay just pulled all the 12 rounds i had made apart, reloaded with a light load of about 9 grains seated under a 155grain soft lead bullet, i poured the poweder slowly, and compressed the bullet 5mm. Each cartriage is about 12mm full length. Everything seems okay now. Its good that it is compressed pretty good right? Basically the brass only can fit like 10 grains which was the original ammo for the .380 webley. 10 grains under a 124grain, all i got are these 155grain so it will have to do they are exactly the same as the original in size .358 dia. What do you guys suggest should i wear a glove as precaution? I think it will be fine as the gun is original and operates 100% . Gunsmith said it looks like it hasnt even been used. I just dont want to damage it. But i dont know how im gonna damage it with 9 grains under a 155grain bullet properly seated in the cylinder and everyhing looks good.
 
Compression is actually desired in most cases when loading black powder. Put in enough powder that the bullets base presses it down an eighth of an inch or so. Serious bpcr shooters use drop tubes and specifically made dies and experiment with different amounts of compression.

I know goex burns considerably cleaner when compressed some. I have heard Swiss powder doesn't respond as well though.

What are you loading? Someone might have some specific hints.
 
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