Ranger Rifles to be on Sale in October

Claven2 said:
Real ones are being made by Colt Canada under license to use the T3 action design. The commercial facsimile guns are being made in Finland by Tikka, dressed up to look like the Colt rifle.

$2700 for a clone that is not even made in the same country as the real deal? No thank-you please.
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Agreed. IF it was the real deal, I could see the collector's value... But in this case, it's NOT & as a result, certainly not worth the premium they are asking.

Cheers
Jay
 
Philthy1 said:
Well, we are paying 4800$ each for essentially 6,800 T3's
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That's a typical media misrepresentation where they give you a simple nugget that on the face of it, seems unreasonable.

There are 6,820 rifles being procured, to be precise. The contract is for $32.8 million. Yes, that's about $4800 per rifle, but the contract is for more than just the rifles themselves. There is also a premium being paid to establish a new, low-volume domestic production line for national security purposes.

Part of the value proposition in that contract is it employs 30 new high-paid skilled workers in Kitchener, who in turn will pay income taxes, property taxes, goods and services taxes, to the point most of their salaries will eventually flow back to the government.

What isn't often mentioned as well is that the capital cost or procurement will include at least a couple years (probably more) of initial provisioning, armorer training, all the special tools and test gear to equip the armorers, and an in-service support contract to procure more parts, training aids, manuals, accessories, etc. because the Rangers will be way harder on their government issue rifle (to which there is no emotional attachment) than you ever will be with your gear. Theirs will see continuous rough use in bad bush. They will need lots of spare parts, new mags, time on the smithing bench, etc.

A quick google on the RFP abstract also netted: "Ancillary items, such as a sling, cleaning kit, trigger lock, soft case and hard case for each rifle will be procured at the same time."

In defence procurements, typically the total cost of ownership for gear is about 1/3 acquisition of the gear and 2/3 for the long-term support of that gear. Source: US DOD Defence Acquisition University. I suspect that is what is driving the cost of the Contract.

Disclaimer: I have no insider knowledge of this contract, but google is my friend!
 
Claven2 said:
That's a typical media misrepresentation where they give you a simple nugget that on the face of it, seems unreasonable.

There are 6,820 rifles being procured, to be precise. The contract is for $32.8 million. Yes, that's about $4800 per rifle, but the contract is for more than just the rifles themselves. There is also a premium being paid to establish a new, low-volume domestic production line for national security purposes.

Part of the value proposition in that contract is it employs 30 new high-paid skilled workers in Kitchener, who in turn will pay income taxes, property taxes, goods and services taxes, to the point most of their salaries will eventually flow back to the government.

What isn't often mentioned as well is that the capital cost or procurement will include at least a couple years (probably more) of initial provisioning, armorer training, all the special tools and test gear to equip the armorers, and an in-service support contract to procure more parts, training aids, manuals, accessories, etc. because the Rangers will be way harder on their government issue rifle (to which there is no emotional attachment) than you ever will be with your gear. Theirs will see continuous rough use in bad bush. They will need lots of spare parts, new mags, time on the smithing bench, etc.

A quick google on the RFP abstract also netted: "Ancillary items, such as a sling, cleaning kit, trigger lock, soft case and hard case for each rifle will be procured at the same time."

In defence procurements, typically the total cost of ownership for gear is about 1/3 acquisition of the gear and 2/3 for the long-term support of that gear. Source: US DOD Defence Acquisition University. I suspect that is what is driving the cost of the Contract.

Disclaimer: I have no insider knowledge of this contract, but google is my friend!
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Yes, I'm aware of all that, and its still a gross overpay....which is also the standard for military contracts. That being said, 32.8M$ won't raise any eyebrows.
 
Hitzy said:
I'll take the loser for $1079....lol.
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/P...ABX_Ceska-Zbrojovka-557-Ranger-Rifle--308-Win
CZ155745304SATBABX.jpg
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Much better choice.
 
my understanding is that most of the other manufacturers would not agree to manufacture in Canada, or have Colt service there product.
I’m also thinking they may be made in Whitby.
 
coltseries70 said:
Anyone else think the government got punked on this tender?
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Again, they paid a premium to make them in Canada for strategic purposes. Agree or disagree, but that is what the Gov't of Canada/DND decided to do and felt it was worth the premium. Similar to why they subsidize Colt Diemaco for C7/C8 rifles when they could get them cheaper in Hartford.
 
gaff said:
my understanding is that most of the other manufacturers would not agree to manufacture in Canada, or have Colt service there product.
I'm also thinking they may be made in Whitby.
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Jeezus.... according to the GOV the contract was just awarded to Colt Sept 2nd 2016, and production is suppose to start 2017?
I thought this was all said and done a year ago?

http://news.gc.ca/web/article-en.do?nid=1119789
 
People b1tch and moan about the cost of contracts. Claven2 hit zee nail on the head. The contract is not per rifle, but for a whole lot of back end and downstream work. It is NOT the same as dividing one amount by another.

Long Branch arsenal is gone. Sorel Industries is gone. Inglis is gone. Unless the Government of Canada pays regularly and well, the strategic ability to make firearms won't be here. Do you think Sako and Tikka don't have government support for their military production lines?
 
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maple_leaf_eh said:
Unless the Government of Canada pays regularly and well, the strategic ability to make firearms won't be here. Do you think Sako and Tikka don't have government support for their military production lines?
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Strategic ability to manufacture overpriced bolt action hunting rifles! I know I'll sleep better.
 
Still alive said:
$2700? That's 10 Mosins and a lifetime supply of ammo!
And I do believe the Mosin's a pretty capable "Arctic" rifle.
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Ya, they shoulda bought the Pat Burns collection 12,000 M39's ;) Actually I've got a ton of respect for the Tikka and I think its the right rifle, but I think we are losing something when we take the Enfield out of service. The Enfield was a huge part of the image and "marketing" for the Rangers. Any time the Rangers are mentioned here or internationally, the Enfield rifle is mentioned. Parts and service are mentioned as being an issue, but certainly it could have been managed. Anyway, I'm just a milsurp nut.............I'd get Colt to start manufacturing the Ross again ;)
 
I could have offered a modified .308 Lee Enfield, made in Canada, by ex Infantry and Weapons Techs, for a better price. Tough, reliable, accurate.
 
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